tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post7319894960630889206..comments2023-06-01T10:59:07.627+01:00Comments on Pits'n'pots: COUNCILLOR JOY GARNER (LABOUR GROUP LEADER) GIVES PITSNPOTS THE ANSWERS ON THE TRANSITION BOARDTonyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09477240165204150850noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-67854398865231809832008-11-06T02:44:00.000+00:002008-11-06T02:44:00.000+00:00CraigAll out elections every 4 years is a system i...Craig<BR/><BR/>All out elections every 4 years is a system in place already in this country.<BR/><BR/>All councillors normal term of office is 4 years. We have 60 Councillors.<BR/>We in Stoke stagger our election and go in thirds, ie 20 per year followed by a fallow year that the mayor would have used.<BR/><BR/>All that would happen, is that we would have one election every 4 years, where all 60 seats are up for election.<BR/><BR/>Clashes with Euro, national, county or a referendum, are purely random, and are not part of the 'all out election' process. <BR/><BR/>This is an interesting debate, and if Tony could collate the posts to reserve them for comments to the Boundary Committee, that would be useful.<BR/><BR/>Democracy in action.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-50857752211270744152008-11-03T11:23:00.000+00:002008-11-03T11:23:00.000+00:00Nicky, there's nothing wrong with holding the loca...Nicky, there's nothing wrong with holding the local elections once every four years if it has a seperate date from any other elections.brooneyeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08858733156838423939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-12716954559533580452008-11-02T23:46:00.000+00:002008-11-02T23:46:00.000+00:00Daniel Baker, I didn't mean that you insulted anyo...Daniel Baker, I didn't mean that you insulted anyone, I was only referring to the fake t cope there. It was fair enough you asking Craig a question. But I was just interested in hearing what you and others who were commenting thought of the transition board and of the governance recommendations.<BR/><BR/>Craig, thanks for your extensive input, interesting reading. I want to pick up on the point about all out elections. I took this to mean electing all local councillors at once every 4 years rather than having elections for 1/3 of them 3 out of 4 years. I don't think it means having local/general/euro on the same day. I checked the "representing the future" reference in the governance report and it actually says not to have these on the same day. (Same reference recommends multi-councillor wards rather than single.) I still think all out local elections would entice more voters out to vote, which would be better because it's more democratically representative. The four years still seems a long time though. Especially if you consider trying to get younger people interested. By the way, I'm in favour of the voting age being lowered to 16. Suppose you get the vote at 16 or 18 or whatever just after local elections, then you don't actually use your vote until you're 20 or 22. That's actually a long time (fractionally) for a younger person.<BR/><BR/>Craig and Nita, I liked both your comments on the current scrutiny committees. I think we all agree these must be improved and that will largely arise if the cabinet in the new system takes proper notice of them!<BR/><BR/>Warren I think the board does include a lot of lefties (although I think it's possible to be leftie without being loony). That is bound to happen I guess as it is appointed by secretary of state. I still have hopes and fears for the board. Gary you clearly agree with my fears - that it is to impose the national will locally.nickyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11175542518100987466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-84609683670673438822008-11-02T22:03:00.000+00:002008-11-02T22:03:00.000+00:00Warren, I agree, it is great to get back to some g...Warren, I agree, it is great to get back to some good debating. <BR/><BR/>I am now a little confused on the reason for having this Transistion Board. As I understood it, this Board has been put into place, to ensure that all the recommendations made, were carried out by the Council. <BR/><BR/>Brooneyes, you are saying that it is the Government interfering into local issues, that don't concern them. It was the Governance Report, that made all these recommendations, so surely we need a Board in place, to ensure that the Council is acting upon what they recommended?<BR/><BR/>Do we really need Higher Calibre Councillors? I say not. We need to stick to electing local people, but maybe, offering the positions full time, would be of benefit. Maybe, this would offer an improved wage, and provide more time to do what they need to, instead of trying to work around a full time job. <BR/><BR/>I would like to see Councillors having a bit more power, as currently, it seems pointless having these various Scrutiny Committee's, as it would appear to us the public, that if they do make any recommendations, they are not really listened to. <BR/><BR/>I think it is vital, for all the local politicians, from all parties, to get out into the communities, and get their individual policies across. We need to stop this apathy, when it comes to voting. I am fed up of hearing people saying, "I don't vote, because it doesn't make any difference, they are all a waste of time", then all they do is moan. We have to change this negative attitude, as I believe every vote does matter, and you should use it.nitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00834992101623704366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-79057118803525514412008-11-02T20:42:00.000+00:002008-11-02T20:42:00.000+00:00I think that at the moment we need this Transition...I think that at the moment we need this Transition Board to oversee the council as we move forward with plans and get a new leader in place, whoever that my be.I dont think that its a load of loony leftys, at least I hope its not, it sould be a board made up of differeing politacal views, lets face it this city holds a lot of very diverce politacal views and all sould be represented on that board. As for the board being in place for upto three years, that not needed or wanted by this city. Why ever takes over must be given the right to run this city without haveing to anser to any board, only the voters within months if not weeks of takeing office. <BR/> And it nice to see we are getting a good debate going round hear again, even with fools butting in, who will be ignored.warrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12533934690660589601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-57351892543737391552008-11-02T17:28:00.000+00:002008-11-02T17:28:00.000+00:00Gary, you don't half waffle on mate!I can't make h...Gary, you don't half waffle on mate!<BR/>I can't make head nor tails of your comments, it's utter tosh!!Craig Pondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11209007646313862194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-76964979886130290862008-11-02T17:26:00.000+00:002008-11-02T17:26:00.000+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.Craig Pondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11209007646313862194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-55639015652309400402008-11-02T14:02:00.000+00:002008-11-02T14:02:00.000+00:00Terrific explanation Joy, many thanks!Whilst it wa...Terrific explanation Joy, many thanks!<BR/><BR/>Whilst it wasn't in Stoke, I'm fairly certain that Gerard Coyne (AMICUS-TGWU) was a Birmingham City Councillor in Northfield prior to his succeeding Jim Hunt as TGWU Regional Secretary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-15203937891873172008-11-02T10:42:00.000+00:002008-11-02T10:42:00.000+00:00Believe it or not, Labour actually won the last th...Believe it or not, Labour actually won the last three General elections.<BR/>Labour rules the Country through its Cabinet of Ministers.<BR/><BR/>Labour does not rule Stoke although approximately 60% will acknowledge Labour as first preference.<BR/><BR/>If Councillors don't mean anything and their opinion (elected) is secondary to Labour's ruling Cabinet, then why have them? Why have an opposition of Tories/Libs/BNP/Ind etc..?<BR/><BR/>Why?<BR/><BR/>What for, do we need a number of (elected) opinions sitting in the Town Hall giving LOCAL opinion for and of this City?<BR/><BR/>Why?<BR/><BR/>If local Labour says NO and any other party says NO to anything that Labour's ruling Cabinet wishes to impose throughout the Country, then why doesn't it either remove local (elected) opinion and impose everything from the centre?<BR/><BR/>What is the point of local opinion?Why pay for it? If the National Government is always right, because it was elected by the whole Country via a majority of opinion (within Constituencies), then why do we bother to listen to a few local yokes who won a vote in Burslem or Hanley?<BR/><BR/>The answe is because local opinion deos matter and National Government knows it.<BR/><BR/>The Tranjsitional Board is here to deliver National Policy over local opinion. They will say not.<BR/><BR/>I say, why are you here then?<BR/>Why aren't you in Newcastle Under Lyme?<BR/><BR/>They have failed under the Mayoral system and 'may' fail under a Leader system and no countenance of such is being allowed for.<BR/><BR/>A quango, answerable to no-one in Stoke-on-Trent who pay their taxes.<BR/><BR/>Politically and morally wrong in a sphere where everything is supposed to be politically and morally right.<BR/><BR/>Norther Ireland has just spent the last 35 years fighting to remove (and keep) a political quango that was seen as being both representative and unrepresentative of local views.<BR/><BR/>The quango lost (or won, depending on your perspective) and ELECTED politicians now rule the province, under the 'rule' of Labour's National Party of Cabinet Government, just like everywhere else in the UK( apart from Stoke).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-3909765559616681562008-11-01T22:34:00.000+00:002008-11-01T22:34:00.000+00:00OK Nicky, just remember you asked!1. MOVE TO ALL O...OK Nicky, just remember you asked!<BR/><BR/>1. MOVE TO ALL OUT ELECTIONS.<BR/>Holding all elections on the same day is a tactic Labour has used before to unfairly hinder its opposition. If you have a local election, a general election, euro elections, or any other kind held on the same day, two things happen;<BR/>confusion, and increased apathy.<BR/>Labour know that by assimilating elections on the same day, there is a marked difference in the results. This is the governance commission doing what's best for Labour, not the electorate.<BR/><BR/>2. SINGLE MEMBER WARDS.<BR/> Either way you look at this it is a stupid idea. Reducing the numbers of councillors for the 20 wards that make up the city would be catastrophic! With 3 councillors per ward, the average is about 3300 people per councillor. Remove 1 and that becomes 5000! If this interpretation of the recommendation is wrong and what the governance commission are talking about is splitting each ward into 3, then this is even more stupid than the first suggestion! Stoke-on-Trent does not need the extra complication and expense that will come with trebling the number of wards! And while we're on the subject of stupidity, combine this with recommendation 1. Can you imagine having to organise for a general election AND 60 local elections too?! This is another suggestion from the left designed to interfere with the democratic rights of those parties and individuals who offer a threat to the Labour vote.<BR/><BR/>3. A SMALLER COUNCIL.<BR/> The governance commission won't recommend a size for the council,<BR/>but instead expects the council to recommend a size suitable for the purpose! What is the point of asking this council to make decisions like this, when the <BR/>governance commission was only present in the city because of this councils inability to run things properly in the first place?! This is tantamount to asking criminals to sentence themselves! Besides which, there are so many factors that would have to be calculated in, it would be far better to encourage the coalition that have wrecked this city in a sustained display of mediocrity and incompetence, to stand down and make way for those who genuinely have the best interests of the city at heart.<BR/><BR/>4. DEVOLUTION OF GOVERNANCE.<BR/> Genuine devolution is the passing of powerto the lowest practicable level in the community, thereby allowing the people to have a say in the day to day running, to let them shoulder some of the responsibility of keeping it in good repair and crime free. This is what real devolution is about,<BR/>not soundbite, temporary measures designed to look good for the press, but with minimal impact on the people of the community.<BR/><BR/>5. IMPROVE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT.<BR/> How are we to improve community<BR/>engagement, when the entire system of governance in Stoke-on-Trent rests in the hands of 2 people?!<BR/>If you want to improve engagement,<BR/>you have to practise real democracy, not this fascist dictatorship that masquerades as one! People will re-engage with local politics when their vote has an impact on it, and not before.<BR/><BR/>6. DIVERSITY AND YOUNG PEOPLE.<BR/>One mans diversity is another mans<BR/>immigrant colonisation!<BR/>The lack of interest from the young is because they know no matter what they say, Meredith does as he pleases. This change of system has potential only if those elected have the drive to put the community before self interest!<BR/>Allowing these ethnic communities to become so large, and detatched<BR/>from British culture, is causing funding problems, no go areas, ill feeling, and it takes part of an English industrial city and turns it into a foreign land. The way forward is to treat people as people, not seperate communities.<BR/><BR/>7. STRENGTHEN POLICAL MACHINERY.<BR/>The breakdown in party politics is<BR/>simply part of the changeover period in which the voters are weaned off their allegiance to the destruction politics of the LibLabCon whilst they look for alternatives. It is only right and proper that the electorate advance with caution as they mull over in which direction to move.<BR/><BR/>8. MEMBER DEVELOPMENT.<BR/>Member development clases are a good idea IF the politics of the incumbents are completely free from the tutorials. Everyone knows of the Labour partys' embracing of indoctrination techniques.<BR/><BR/>9. REVIEW OF O&S.<BR/>Once again, there are two main problems with overview and scrutiny. Some of the councillors who get to Chair some of these committees, simply are not fit to do so. Take a look at the present<BR/>EMB. As Labour have lost more and more seats, so Merediths, "genepool<BR/>of talent" has been drastically reduced from what was at best a collection of mediocrity in the first place, to the atrocious gathering of moneygrabbers, perverts, incompetents, and 3rd<BR/>raters the people of Stoke-on-Trent<BR/>find themselves lumbered with now!<BR/>Point two refers to the behaviour of the elected mayor.The overview and scrutiny will not function to their best until their decisions are allowed to carry more weight!<BR/>Irrespective of how many sensible decisions are arrived at, all they are allowed to do is recommend. When all said and done, the decision is solely that of the elected mayor, and not that of the 60 DEMOCRATICALLY elected councillors chosen by the people.<BR/><BR/>10. PAY AND ALLOWANCES.<BR/>I think we should look at making councillors full time positions. So many of them have to work outside of what they for the council and it has to have a detrimental effect on their work.<BR/>I don't think anyone would mind councillors getting paid well if the services were up to standard,<BR/>but they are not. Perhaps a performance related pay scale would<BR/>be the best way of ensuring that those who got the most, earned it.<BR/><BR/>11. CLARIFICATION OF MP'S ROLES.<BR/>What a loaded statement that is! Three Labour MP's and a Labour elected mayor! My honest opinion is that no matter how hard I think, I can't think of one thing that stands out about any of them achievemnt wise. Kick 'em out at the next election and let's get people into these positions that will work for the city.<BR/><BR/>More tomorrow.brooneyeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08858733156838423939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-62856480038696269662008-11-01T21:16:00.000+00:002008-11-01T21:16:00.000+00:00Nicky, the problem is there are two distinct roles...Nicky, the problem is there are two distinct roles to be played by a councillor. One is as ward councillor, the other, city councillor. The idea of reducing councillor numbers, or of redefining boundaries so that there are 60 wards, are ridiculous suggestions. Keep the number at 60<BR/>and look into making the position full time.<BR/> The other thing desperately needed, is the devolvement of power<BR/>to its lowest practicable level.<BR/> Across most of the city we have a network of local bodies perfect for the devolving of power to, and they are the residents associations. By allowing a combination of residents associations and neighbourhood officers to take responsibility for the day to day running of the <BR/>wards, the councillors could then concentrate on reinvigourating the city and its economy, education, transport, and all the other major subjects in which this city has been allowed to lag behind in.<BR/> Don't let the liars and smear spreaders deflect your attention from the BNP, we are the only group who can put this city back on track.brooneyeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08858733156838423939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-79522655597841960622008-11-01T20:28:00.000+00:002008-11-01T20:28:00.000+00:00Nita, your comment on fewer councillors is spot on...Nita, your comment on fewer councillors is spot on.<BR/>How can one man, or woman serve a whole ward,like Bentilee,Abbey Hulton, Meir, or Blurton.<BR/>It does not make sense, and the Council Chamber is half empty now, it will be like a ghost town.<BR/>Your comment on public consultation is spot on as well, they are sometimes left out of the loop, which only causes more problems.<BR/>Why is that outsiders think they can fix something they have no knowledge of?terry turbohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05784175741266339217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-12760391139371468962008-11-01T20:26:00.000+00:002008-11-01T20:26:00.000+00:00Nicky, in what way have I insulted anyone?I asked ...Nicky, in what way have I insulted anyone?<BR/>I asked Brooneyes a question, he responded and I thanked him for responding, end of.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-28837823245356204402008-11-01T20:09:00.000+00:002008-11-01T20:09:00.000+00:00I’ve given this some thought. It is not easy beca...I’ve given this some thought. It is not easy because I am drawn to an idealistic approach but then my pragmatic side can see how it might not work. I may change my mind but these are my thoughts at the moment.<BR/><BR/>Joy I’ll start with the points you raised in the blog first.<BR/><BR/>Fewer councillors but more scrutiny work and more time in wards:<BR/>I agree with Nita on this, I’m not convinced that having fewer councillors will work well. Although people, including me, like to criticise our councillors, many of them do I think work very hard. They have a lot to do. There are developments such as (in a couple of years time I think) the LSC going and post 16 education coming back under LA control. But we lost the LEAs already so how is that going to be handled? (And please don’t say employ serco to do it…) That’s one extra responsibility and there may be others I’m not aware of, plus government probably often invoke tasks they want LAs to deal with. As for the number of councillors in a ward, well when some of them are useless you are glad you’ve got more than one and maybe you’d get one to help you when another wouldn’t. But in an ideal world if they were all good maybe having one for a smaller area could work well as they’d concentrate on that area. I can certainly see the ward I’m in dividing naturally into 3 bits. But currently I don’t think it’s pragmatic. More scrutiny work I’m not sure about. What I do think is that the council needs to respect its scrutiny committees more. Maybe it does sometimes but there have been recent examples where it doesn’t; the EMB still not reporting back as promised on the scrutiny recommendation on Trentham High, the health portfolio holder apparently not communicating properly with the health scrutiny chair. I think the scrutiny committees fulfil a vital role, but for that to work the new cabinet will have to treat them properly and take them seriously. I don’t think it’s necessary really to say that councillors should spend more time in wards. If they are good councillors they will make time for the people in their wards. What is needed is a mechanism to complain about them if they do not work properly with wards, which does not appear to be in place at present. For example there are 3 councillors in my ward but only one who is any good. The other two will not answer my emails and one of them when pinned down in person has confirmed that he will not. That is simply unacceptable behaviour in a councillor. So it is important to implement a system for complaints about councillor conduct. <BR/><BR/>Higher calibre councillors:<BR/>I’m not sure about any huge increase in allowances. If they are paid too much you could end up with a system of career politicians and the minute you have that, they are immediately seen as not representing the community. I know MPs are paid but at the local level it’s more crucial that councillors are seen as part of the community. How councillors manage to fit in their council role with their jobs and the rest of their lives I do not know but I think it’s good they do. (£200,000 houses in SOT? Can’t be many of those. I live in Trentham which is often said to be the posh bit but I think there must be a minority of houses like that.)<BR/><BR/>A wider north staffs authority:<BR/>Certainly not now. The rest of North Staffs wouldn’t want us. Sort out governance in SOT first then later see if such a thing would make sense or not, I kind of expect it may not be popular although I’ve an open mind.<BR/><BR/>Community involvement:<BR/>(I’m thinking of a blog on that at some point – waiting for some info requested from council.) I agree very much with recommendation 5. This will depend on council wanting people involved and I think some members just don’t at present, but I think we people should be involved. We did actually have a citizen’s panel before, I was part of it. I thought it was a good thing, not sure when it disappeared but if I remember rightly it went out when Meredith came in. So we had a mechanism, just need to bring it back in. Opportunities for people to develop civic and political knowledge, sure great idea, I’d be interested in that. The communications strategy is important. Meredith’s propaganda magazine just does not do it I’m afraid. As I’ve already said some councillors are useless. I’ve also found when communicating with councillors more widely that some are very good and some just don’t. This needs to be sorted out. I would like to see more involvement of people in decision making, via citizens panel, public meetings, residents associations etc. Then communicating of decisions made could be improved. One good thing already in place is the publication of meeting papers and minutes on the council web site. But what would improve that would be a short quick reference list of important decisions to be made, when, and when the decision is made a short reason given and link to the minutes. Involving young people really shouldn’t be difficult, they have these regular PSCHEE (have I got all the letters right) days and at key stage 4 have citizenship timetabled. Why not have people from the council into schools to visit, why not take citizenship out of the classroom into the council chamber, it’s an easy school trip to organise.<BR/><BR/>Now onto other issues coming out of the recommendations:<BR/><BR/>Recommendation 1 – move to all out elections every 4 years. I think this one is a very good idea although the 4 years seems a bit long (2 years perhaps). At the moment we have a lot of voter apathy. I don’t think that is helped by knowing that after an election 2/3 of the councillors will be as before. Being able to elect or get rid of councillors on the entire council at once would provide more reason for people to vote because it would raise the possibility of real change. (And don’t close schools for elections.)<BR/><BR/>(2 & 3 dealt with)<BR/><BR/>Recommendation 4 – further devolution of governance. I’m stuck with this one as I do not as an ordinary person notice the good or bad effects of this. (Maybe we have little budget in Trentham as we’re meant to be the rich bit so nothing happens so I don’t notice it?)<BR/><BR/>(5 & 6 dealt with)<BR/><BR/>Recommendation 7 – strengthening of political machinery. I had an interesting discussion with Gary Elsby on this site about how national/local/council labour party works (or doesn’t it seems). There are rifts in labour and Shaun Bennett has alluded to rifts in the conservatives. The libdems we never hear from. The bnp appear to be pretty united. The independents are of course their own people and I have to say I’m impressed with many of them, largely because they are quite open in saying what they think. Now especially for me as a floating voter, I would like to see all the parties and groups get their acts together a bit more and communicate their principles a bit better.<BR/><BR/>Recommendation 8 – member development. OK as long as it’s not too onerous.<BR/><BR/>(9 & 10 dealt with)<BR/><BR/>Recommendation 11 – MPs roles. Well in an ideal world this would be easy. They are meant to represent constituents views in parliament. Central government aren’t interested in ordinary plebs from SOT so we need MPs as the link. This could be improved by less sucking up and more putting the foot down. If council were operating properly then MPs wouldn’t need to interfere, but when council are screwing it up, e.g. BSF plans, we the people are glad for them to interfere and try to knock sense into the council. So get things working properly and the problem will go away.<BR/><BR/>Recommendation 12 – raising profile of SOT. Get it sorted out first then raise profile. No good raising profile whilst it’s in a mess.<BR/><BR/>(13 & 14 dealt with)<BR/><BR/>Now what about you other guys on the blog? What do you think? They (council/transition board) may or may not take any notice of what we think but if we don’t say they don’t even have that choice. Craig, you’ve responded extensively on recommendation 14 but what do you think on the other recommendations? What about you Mike, Daniel Baker, Bob, posh Pete and the anonymous(es)? And to the fake t cope (same one two times), please don’t insult the real Terry Cope or Craig, but please contribute as yourself if you’ve got anything off the homosexual topic and more to the point to say.nickyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11175542518100987466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-7328515514635750982008-11-01T19:22:00.000+00:002008-11-01T19:22:00.000+00:00Mike, who are these two leading members of the BNP...Mike, who are these two leading members of the BNP that are homosexual, and who is the jealous one?<BR/>What proof have you got to these accusations?<BR/>I would love to know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-80805672205280178882008-11-01T13:34:00.000+00:002008-11-01T13:34:00.000+00:00Posh Pete, another one with aconspiracy theory and...Posh Pete, another one with a<BR/>conspiracy theory and no facts to back it up. Where do all these sad little people come from?brooneyeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08858733156838423939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-10518955286513123812008-11-01T10:50:00.000+00:002008-11-01T10:50:00.000+00:00In other words Daniel Baker you were just checking...In other words Daniel Baker you were just checking to see if Craig was lying like the BNP do more than any other party. With the 3 main parties they tend to stick to what they say they're going to do. With nuLabour (and I've never voted Labour) people had overly high expectations after 18 years of the last Tory government. They've actually tried to deliver what they said they said they would but it's not enough for their traditional voters, many of whom have gone BNP. With the Tories we saw "the I'm alright Jack" culture emerge but with this Labour govt we see a culture of dependency particularly in areas that have gone BNP. The BNP have the biggest hidden agenda of any political party which has occasionally been outed by ex-members and a local Branch Secretary who just can't seem to keep his opinion to himself and tow the party line.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-67249251892288236292008-11-01T10:06:00.000+00:002008-11-01T10:06:00.000+00:00Thank You for the response Brooneyes. I wasn't wor...Thank You for the response Brooneyes. I wasn't worried anyway, I was just trying to get a fuller picture as you refer to people who are born here as foreigners. <BR/>My grandad has retired to Trinidad, so it doesn't really matter if you would want to deport him anyway (I know, you said you wouldn't).<BR/><BR/>I have been on the BNP website and they do have some disgusting articles and comments about black people, not just Muslims and asylum seekers.<BR/>That's why I asked really.<BR/>Thank You for the response again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-8904609350022341972008-11-01T09:41:00.000+00:002008-11-01T09:41:00.000+00:00A good synopsis of the role of the Transition Boar...A good synopsis of the role of the Transition Board by Joy Garner - thanks very much. <BR/><BR/>If anyone is concerned about how this Board operates, then put it to the test when it meets and ask to meet with it. This blog and the correspondents commenting on it have a lot to offer, I think the Transition Board would be stupid not to welcome the input of others to their work, especially if they are acting as advocates for the people of the City. Lets hope it doesn't come to that situation, but lets be ready if it does.Former Town Clerk's Depthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12939226754061756886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-61807486096268968742008-11-01T09:36:00.000+00:002008-11-01T09:36:00.000+00:00I thought that was why Sharon Ebanks was thrown ou...I thought that was why Sharon Ebanks was thrown out of the party, because it turned out her ancestry wasn't wholly white.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-35176934689654285312008-11-01T09:32:00.001+00:002008-11-01T09:32:00.001+00:00I see the fake Terry Copes are still at. I have to...I see the fake Terry Copes are still at. <BR/><BR/>I have to agree with Mike. It's not just the race issue that concerns me with the BNP but their economic policies too. My understanding is that anyone who's made a go of things and been financially succesful will end up paying out alot more in taxes. The argument against taxing the rich heavily has always been why should the hard working pay the social security for the idle? The BNP is attracting people who can't be arsed to stand on their own two feet, want govt to sort their lives out instead of doing it themselves, and are keen to blame their problems on others. If the UK wants to be a properous nation are these really the sort of people we want to pander to? Then of there are the hard core genuine nazis who can't see themselves for what they really are because they're British not German, their parents/ grandparents may have fought in the war and they don't parade in uniforms shouting sieg heil. A nazi is a national socialist, ie socialism in an ethnically homogenous nation, exactly what the BNP stands for. My father once said that most of the people he served with in the war knew nothing about nazism and it was about fighting for King and Country, and giving Jerry a damn good thrashing. He also said that there was alot of anti-semitic views etc... expressed amongst British troops, though obviously not as rabidly as those that turned traitor and joined the British Freekorps in SS service (mostly ex-Mosleyites).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-17330219210467253592008-11-01T09:32:00.000+00:002008-11-01T09:32:00.000+00:00Daniel, I would consider you British. And before a...Daniel, I would consider you British. And before anyone starts, we would not be looking to deport your Trinidadian Grandad either.<BR/> There are people that came to this country because they identifed with the ethos of this country, and I'm betting your Grandads one of those people Daniel. He may well have come here as an immigrant, but I'll bet he has taken up the torch of Britishness as this is what attracted him in the first place.<BR/>These are good people, these are not the people we are looking to get out of this country. <BR/>I hope this puts your mind at rest Daniel, and remember, don't believe all you hear when it comes to the BNP, you can always pop on here to check, or you can try our main website.brooneyeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08858733156838423939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-47518198812103484482008-11-01T09:16:00.000+00:002008-11-01T09:16:00.000+00:00I was asking Brooneyes a serious question, there's...I was asking Brooneyes a serious question, there's a time and a place for all that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-23506284428931073402008-11-01T09:09:00.000+00:002008-11-01T09:09:00.000+00:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7272174149265458740.post-4221629755320112512008-11-01T09:06:00.000+00:002008-11-01T09:06:00.000+00:00Can I ask you a question, Brooneyes?My grandad is ...Can I ask you a question, Brooneyes?<BR/>My grandad is from Trinidad but my other three grandparents are white, do you consider me British or just another foreigner?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com