Breaking News on Sky, announces yet another 19 year old has been stabbed to death in London. A second youngster is seriously injured. This serious crime is fastly becoming a daily occurrence in our Capital City. How do we tackle this gang culture that is sweeping the Country? Is it really so easy for these youngsters to get hold of guns/knives?
Many of these youngsters have simply been in the wrong place at the wrong time? Some have simply stepped in to help a friend, and sadly, this has cost them their lives.
What makes these youngsters join these gangs? Is it pressure from their mates, and they simply do not want to be the odd one out? Would they, then become the victim themselves, if they don't do the same as the other's? That is a high posibility. If parents, suspect their son or daughter of being involved in a gang, they should tackle it head on. If needs be, and it is a difficult decision, but should be an easy one, they should seek help from the police, and also try and talk sense into the person involved. Though that is not an easy task, as they may feel initimidated themselves.
Shops are not allowed by law to sell to the under 18's, any type of knife, that includes cutlery.
However, what about the over 18's? There are a lot of gangs in the age range of 18+, how are you going to tackle them?
It is an offence to carry a knife. Do officers have the man power to go out on the street and tackle this problem?
Lets now look at Stop and Search. Police Officers may stop any person or vehicle, if they suspect an offence, that includes carrying an offensive weapon. With this law now in place, do you feel that this has deterred people from carrying such weapons. I think it may have had some affect, but you will still have the ones, that have the arrogance to simple ignore the law. This is a very difficult job for the Police Force to tackle, and is another added danger, to the role that they do.
School staff in England, now have the power to search any pupil they suspect of carrying a knife.
The school can screen pupils at randon. I just wonder how many schools across the Country, have used this power, and it would be interesting to know, the statistics for how many pupils had been found carrying such weapons.
Now, once these cases go to court, some of these do not always get the punishment they deserve. One of the problems being, our prisons and young offender prisons, are already bursting at the seams. What are your thoughts on, how we should be dealing with this?
We have as a city being suffering a lot of anti social behaviour. Many of the youngsters say, they
simply have nowhere to go, as there are no facilities in the area, for them to simply hang around and chat. All they want is a little unused building. Do you agree, that more facilities should be provided? Would this help to cut down on crime, and anti social behaviour? Having said that, we have lots of youngsters across the city who we can be proud of, and it is only a small minority that do not want to abide by the laws of the land.
Do you think that the Government is doing enough to handle this serious problem? If not, what else should they be doing? If the Conservatives, won the next general election, would they be able to deal with the problem, would they do a better job? What are the actual policies on gun and knife crime from all of the political parties?
Your thoughts please.
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46 comments:
I think this is more of a parental problem than a government one.
It is extremely sad that people of all ages feel the need to carry these deadly weapons to the extent that they are today. We have to remember that there has always been a minority who have carried these weapons but today these incidents are reported more.
If children were raised to have respect for others & themselves & to know what is acceptable behaviour & what isn't we may have a nicer society. Until this happens I doubt that much will/can be done to reduce these crimes.
I know that some of the people who insist on carrying & using these weapons have had a responsible upbringing & still have this mindset that they need them.
As a parent you are worried when your children are out & about as you just never know if they will be caught up in an incident, wrong place at the wrong time.
We need to educate our youngsters that the answer does not lie in carrying weapons & guiding them, subtly to choosing their friends carefully & not to give into peer pressure to appear cool & one of the gang.
Knife & gun culture is with us for the foreseeable future, educating our youngsters needs to begin now to start chipping away at the need for these implements.
The problem is, as Henlen says very much a parental one, meny inner city kids are today brought up with a lack of repect to others. I remember when I was a kid in the early 70s, the second you started to grow out of your action man, plactic guns and whatever, as a boy, you wanted a air gun and a knife. You got them after much sulking and promicese, and you were kept an eye on by your perents with them.
I spent meny happy hours growing up thowing a knife at a old sheet of wood, makeing targets to shot an air gun at, sending old bean cans flying with an air rifel, carveing lard knows what out of bits of trees. All the time I was watched closly by my Father, who loved guns and knives himself.Even today I have a collection of swards and knifes, I love to handel them but would not even dream of walking out of the house with one, or even useing one at all.
What I'am trying to say is, well, its always gone on. Kids have always had knives and guns, the diffrance is now the buggers use them on the streets, becouse they see it on the TV and the films. The perents of some of them dont bother telling them it not on, and let them watch such vilance going on, young minds are very open to ideas.
Now that said can I bring a new slant to this debate, I heard on the BBC News this week that Stoke on Trent had been given money, along with other area, to police knife crime more, we have been identified as a knive crime black spot. Did I not read only in the Summer that the level of not just Knife crime in the city but also vilent crime was very low indeed and not a thing to worry about. I ask all of you, who are we to belive. One mouth they say 'Its not a problem, dont worry, the next they are grabing at money to sort the problem out, it is very worrying indeed, can we be told what is going on for once instead of lies, yet more lies and a big old slice of New Labour spin.
And neither of you thought fit to mention the part immigration has to play in this?
Ostriches bury their heads in the sand, you're not supposed to!
The other major problem with this crime is that the laws are ridiculously lax. String the little b*stards up and watch the offending figures tumble! That or 25 years hard labour!
Helen and Warren, yes I agree, parents do have a major role to play in all of this.
Many youngsters are now carrying knives for protection.
As Helen, says, just when you think your kids are on the straight and narrow, and following the laws of the land, they could pop up town, and be one of those, in the wrong place at the wrong time. That is harsh reality. It is every persons worse nightmare.
Warren, that disturbes me, that Stoke on Trent has been identified as a knife crime black spot. We don't really think, that our small City is affected by the crime culture.
Brooneyes. Places like London, Birmingham, and Manchester, and many cities, have gangs made up of youngsters from very different cultures. This is a major problem. Immigration? Well can we say that every person coming into the country has contributed to gun and knife, I dont think that would be fair.
So crime wasn't there prior to immigration then Craig? We didn't have a problem in the 50s with Teddy Boys then? And the Krays and the Richardson were secretly black immigrants? It's quite ironic that you should immigration in this context at a time when UK police are starting a massive extradition programme for (white) Brit criminals who have legged it, mainly to the Costas.
Oh sorry, by Teddy Boys I meant in a context to knife crime not the way they dressed.
Anonymous, don't be surprised that particular people with a certain agenda want to link just about everything that's wrong with the country on immigration, ethnicity or race.
You get the feeling that such people, if their bus were late, it started to rain or they just couldn't tie their shoe laces would blame immigration and/or black people!
Anonymous, 23.08 and Big John. You are right there! Why do people blame everything on immigration, race and ethnicity. Crime and violence has and will always be around.
Yes, cities, do have race gang problems, but more often than not, it is area v area, with youngsters crossing onto another gangs patch.
You don't mean people like... da da da... Craig Pond.
If that's all the BNP can come up with on this issue it shows just how unelectable they really are! You see unlike policies regarding immigration which can only be sorted out at a national level, we at a local level can have an impact on knife crime and gang participation. I would expect our local elected representatives to be working with the local area policing units and resident associations to find out where these gangs hang out, where the hot spots for trouble are and to influence a stop and search to see how many of our youngsters are carrying weapons. Those that are should feel the full weight of the law!
Does Craig not remember the Mod's and Rockers? The seaside riots? There were knifes carried then and stabbings took place. Would he blame immigration then? Ask poor Helen Newlove if she thinks that fewer immigrants would have saved her brave husband! Is this life under the BNP? As long as crime is committed by white people in their own country well that's OK then! Maybe the BNP want knife crime to continue maybe they want to encourage white only gangs to take on other non white gangs. That's a sure fire way of reducing the number of immigrants! Pathetic excuse for a post by pitsnpots most notorious BNP poster, if his excuse for a response does not show how inept this parties policies are, nothing will!
David Perry. Yes I do!!
Brooneyes. Instead of just making the claim that you blame immigration, give us your reasons? Do you have the statistics to prove your statement?
What is the BNP's stance on tackling gun and knife crime?
God, you people are so wet! When did I say crime doesn't exist amongst the indigenous population??
How can you say this isn't about immigration?? How many murders in London this year? How many of the perpetrators were BME? How the hell can you sit there and point your fingers?!
Blacks make up 9% of the London population but are responsible for 50% of violent crimes with weapons!
Every time someone mentions immigrants in a bad light you fall back on this totally stupid attitude of believing its racism
at work. There are areas of the country where 40% of motoring offenses are caused by immigrants, but that's just me being racist again,no doubt.
Darklake synectics did a study of crime based on the Home Offices own figures. What they found is shocking because it shows how the government have been manipulating the figures to suit their purposes.
Whites were 32.6 times more likely to be victims of a racist attack than expected.
Blacks were 4 times fewer victims than expected.
Asians almost exactly as expectation.
Jewish 371 fewer victims than expected.
Other 2.9 times fewer than expected.
What this shows is that ethnics claim to be the victims of racism
but the facts don't back it up. The only ethnic group with a positive score is the white population, who find themselves 32 times more likely to be the victim of a racial attack than they believe!
If you are honaestly trying to tell us that immigration hasn't caused a huge jump in violent crime, you need you heads examined!
Brooneyes. I for one, have never said anything, about your comments having anything to do with racism.
You stated, that immigration plays a part, and I was interested to hear your reasons. Now, you have given them. I do not disagree, that race, can contribute to some of the problem with gangs, in the cities. It will take a lot of hard work, to try and break the barriers down, but they need to learn, that violence is not the answer. You cannot take someone else's life, simply because you don't get along. However, the incident in London yesterday, was sadly, over a girl.
Now, can you let us know what the BNP's policies are, on tackling gun and knife crime?
This at first looks a simple thing to remedy. Increase the severity of prison sentences, bring back the death penalty along the lines of, take a life, forfeit your own.
This won't be enough. The inner cities in particular are becoming crowded with third world immigrants
that are allowed to bring their cultures with them, but when those cultures are violent and dangerous, what then?
We neeed to reinstate our national borders. Bringing arms, drugs, people into this country is far too easy at the minute, but we can't tighten up on these things without the express permission of the EU, as they hold the power to decide what happens in this country. So whereas at first it seems a fairly simple thing to cure, it is far from it. All roads lead to Brussels, and until that changes, little else will.
Judging by your comments Craig the most violent and dangerous person that comes to mind is you. Stones and glasshouses. But keep up the good work. Like people keep saying you are doing your level best to make the BNP unelectable with your neolithic rants.
Perry.
This is supposed to be a blog about gun and knife crime, not
whiny, off subject tossers like you. If you don't like what you read, go and read something you do like, and stop mithering at people that want to talk about the subjects at hand.
Gun and Knife crime are difficult problems to solve without difficult decisions being made.
We must be tough on criminals in all crime, especialy so with guns, and knives.
Capital punishment should be reinstated for murder, no ifs or buts, and I bet if this was put to the people it would be a positive yes, but we don't have politicians with bottle to try it.
Yes a lot has to do with parents with the lack of parental skills.
This also needs to be addressed.
Tony, look at the Governments own figures on crime, they speak for themselves.
Gangs, and race play a major part in this type of crime, we can't go on ducking the facts to suit political beliefs.
Teach the kids respect, plain and simple.
Unfortunately kids today generally don't respect their parents or authority and because of that lack of respect the believe they can get away with murder, quite literally.
The days of a copper being able to get hold of a kid by the ear and take him home are sadly gone but that is what is missing. Now if he tried it he would no doubt be suspended, then dismissed and the parents would go to the court of human rights.
Rather than issuing ASBOs and other totally useless measures we need to look at something radical, three strikes and you get a dose of national service..
"But he is only 12!" So what? 2 years national service when he is 17, oh and in the next five years he has to go and do some community work like clearing litter and the like. If he is good and has no further relapses in the five years he might, just might get out of NS. If he does relapse then 6 months get added each time..
And before you all start crying, as it is enforced, I'll be generous, they don't get sent to a theatre of war they can do valuable work here in the UK..
Right, how the hell as immergration got crowbared into this one, oh! by Crage, I might have gessed that. So everythings down to that is it then mate. The state of the NHS, immergation, knife crime out of control, immergration, damed out of control unruily kids, blame immergation, its never ending. I'll tell you the problem, thicko perents bringing up thicko children, without a srape on commen knowlage of whats right and no repect for anyone, what ever race they may be.
Did anyone see the Sentanel yesterday, there was a report about gangs of kids stoneing cars, busses, anything that went past them, all over the city. Police have apealed to the perents to keep a better eye on what there kids are up to. The best thing the police could have done was step up the potrols, not say a word, catch the buggers at it, take them home, pick there dimwitted perents up and ship them all off down the local cop shop, chargeing the swines with whatever they can.
Warren, once again spot on, but you sound as if you are boiling mad mate, I know how you feel, they just laugh in your face and give you a load of verbal, if you are lucky, or are likely to shoot or knife you, if you are not.
They quote the law at you, and their illiterate parents back them up with "my boy would never do that, he's an angel".
Thats where the trouble starts, parents with no sense of responsibilty, or morals.
Parents should be made to pay for their offsprings damage.
As for getting caught with either guns or knives they should get a minimum 5 years, no excuse's.
In other words Craig, you haven't got anything worth saying... as usual. The problem with gun and knife crime probably has more to do with imported US culture than anything else. Warren, and guess what, the kids stoning the buses are white. People like Craig are trying to use immigration at every turn and completely ignore crime committed by their own. A large proportion of their own party have convictions for some sort of violent crime so maybe before they point fingers elsewhere they should clean their own act up.
Look, here's a simple lesson in political reality for all those simpletons still bellyaching on this blog.
The one subject that affects more than anything else is immigration.
It impacts on every part of the political spectrum; the NHS, education, transport, environment, housing, law and order, benefits,
employmewnt. Starting to get the picture now??
David Perry, why do you keep posting on here? You have nothing to say that adds to the discussion at hand, you put forward no theories or practical suggestions.
If making a few snidey remarks is the best you can offer, p*** off!
As for the rest of you, you're letting your bigotry blind you to the facts. Don't pass it out of hand.
Craig, you do realise that with your last posting ("The one subject that affects more than anything else is immigration") you have just confirmed exactly what people were accusing you of? Perhaps you don't?
Then what of your
"As for the rest of you, you're letting your bigotry blind you to the facts"
comment, that smacks of the biggest case of hypocrisy I have read on here.
You, yes you, are the biggest hypocrite around. Whatever you have accused people of, you are equally, if not more, guilty of!
No Craig, why don't you p*** off!! Chav.
Now, now, David, don't stoop to his level. It's quite simple, rather than get antagonised by Craig it's much easier just to ignore him. Better still, why not lets all boycott pitsnpots until he f**ks off and abuses people elsewhere.
Some good points made!
Like Warren says, the idiots that were chucking bricks at cars, or anything they could yesterday, think they are way above the law. They do not fear the police. The parents are asked to keep an eye on what they are doing, but lets face it, as long as they are out of the house, they don't basically give a stuff.
Brooneyes, you state that the cities are crowded with third world immigrants, bringing their cultures with them. Many of the gangs are not immigrants are they. They are just young lads and girls who want to play a territory game. If you cross it, then the fighting begins. I agree that they need to increase the severitity of the punishment, but the prisons, and young offenders institutions are jam packed now.
As it can be sheer pressure, for some of these youngsters to get involved with these gangs, once they are in, they find it hard to stop and get out. Is there anything in place at the moment, where they can go and seek help? Sometimes, they won't speak to parents.
I think alcohol, can also contribute to these violent crimes. Look at the gang that set on Mr Newlove, and cost him his life. They had consumed far too much, and in their rage, attacked this innocent man. Now, this lad wants to appeal. What an insult to the Newlove family. You do the crime, you should pay the price.
Look at Reece Jones, in the wrong place at the wrong time. Another innocent life taken. The sad thing is, that not one person went forward to the police, to give information. Someone, must have known who was involved. It is sickening, that people, will cover up for these people. I suppose, it is pure fear, of the repercussions.
Terry turbo, totally agree, its about time, they made the parents pay fines, for the damage that their kids are doing.
Why can't we just stick to the debate.
Guys, Brooneyes is giving his opinion. If he chooses to blame immigration, for most things, that's upto him. The majority of us would disagree, but instead of slagging him off, just give us your opinions.
This blog was set up for people to give different views, some we agree with some we don't.
It is your choice to boycott it.
Nita, I agree with you that a lot of the gangs are territorial, using that as an excuse to pick fights with one another. Though why they want the fights I don't understand - it may start as some form of entertainment then get sinister. Now it used to be many years ago that you could just choose not to be in a gang, then you were pretty safe, you were just left alone as you weren't part of the 'game'. What I fear now is that it is less easy to opt out of the gangs, you maybe get attacked for not being in a gang. I also agree that alcohol has a part to play these days. I'd be in favour of a straightforward ban on drinking alcohol in public places - but it's too easy for me to suggest that as I don't drink.
Helen, that is an excellent point about guiding children to choose their friends carefully & not to give into peer pressure to appear cool & one of the gang. I believe those conversations are very important.
Good parenting is of course necessary. But as a lot of people have said, the youngster who has that, and is out and about but not in a gang, can end up tragically being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Same can happen to adults. For that reason we need intensive policing, get these criminals off the streets and into prisons or young offenders institutions. If there is no room, build more! That way those who want to live decently and safely can do. It is certainly no good letting these people back out onto the streets too easily to cause more trouble.
As for the throwing bricks at buses, I fail to find words for that ???!?!? I just don't get it. Why on earth would anyone have anything against a bus service for goodness sake? Don't they use buses? Don't they have any respect for those who want to use buses? - silly question - of course they have no respect given that they are throwing bricks at buses. I can't get my head around it and I'm guessing those involved have nothing in their heads.
The people who murdered Gary Newlove were white, so were the goth murderers, so how can someone sit there and blame immigration for everything? That's typical of BNP blame culture and their attempt at playing a race card.
I am not blaming immigration for everything for Christsake! What I said was that when it comes to the
incidents of knife and gun murders
taking part in this country, the vast majority involve immigrants as perpetrators! That's not raciism, it's a bloody fact!
You people are behaving just how you have conditioned to by this
Labour government.
Jack Straw has mentioned Stephen Lawrence over 80 times in the House of Commons, but has never once mentioned the white, teenage girl shot in the head in his constituency by a gang of asians!
Nor has he seen fit to mention the little white boy hit by an immigrant in a car, and dragged for half a mile down the road. Even now we keep hearing of Lawrence and Anthony Walker, but wheres this governments concern over the most horrendous racial murder this country has seen?
Kriss Donald was 15, grabbed off the street by four asians in a car,
beaten, stabbed, tortured, castrated, for three hours before being dragged from the car and set alight whilst still alive. Where are the bloody politicians to stand up for his memory?
I am not blaming all crime on immigration, but the part these foreigners have to play in the increasing murder rate in this country should not underestimated!
See past this blinding bigotry that has you bloody liberals foaming at the mouth at the mere mention of immigration, and take a look at the world as it really is!
The stupid thing about this is we could go tit for tat on murders, you producing a white killer, me a foreign killer. But what you have to understand is that whites are supposed to outnumber the foreigners by nine to one, yet the ethnic community can match us for violence! That is the most telling part about this, and the part that some of you deranged people on here fail to comprehend!
Er, the Kriss Donald murderers are doing time for the murder, Strathclyde police treated it as a racially motivated murder, and one of the local MPs in Glasgow Mohammed Sarwar got the Pakistani government to return three of the suspects to stand trial. And local politicians in Scotland did make a stand over the whole case. So Craig, wrong as usual. If you're going to try and use an Asian on white murder as an example of the authorities treating minorities with kid gloves don't use the one highly publicised one where they clearly did the opposite. And didn't Kriss Donald's mother tell you lot to fuck off when you attempted to hijack his funeral for political purposes accusing you of being part of the problem. Then again, it's Scotland, hardly anyone up there's remotely interested in the BNP because it's a party trying turn the UK into a greater England the way Milosevic tried turning Yugoslavia into a greater Serbia.
The fact is gun, and knife crime is out of control, under a Government that, does'nt, or want to try and control and halt it.
It has overseen the rights of the parents taken away, and childrens "rights" increased to the point that they can almost do as they like and get away with it.
Gang culture has been allowed to grow, without hinderance.
Punishment for crimes committed has been a joke, with lenient sentances dished out, and only half sentances served.
All this would have to be reversed in order to put the brakes on all types of crime.
The liberal brigade have had their day and failed dramatically, to our cost.
Justice needs to be taken out of the hands of the politicians, and restored to the people.
Not another fake.
You are the perfect example of the type of bigoted behaviour I'm talking about. You have obviously not read what I wrote. The Lawrence case went nationwide and ten years on, we're still hearing about it and there's a multi million pound centre. Kriss Donalds case was in the news here for about a week all in! Where's the multi million pound centre for him? If anyone deserves it more I've yet to hear about it. Why hasn't the Minister for Justice mentioned Kriss' name in parliament 80 bloody times? It's because this government don't give a monkeys about the indigenous people of this country! You only have to take a look at some of the schemes running to see that we're second class citizens in our own country. As for your moronic comments that followed, at least we tried to do something about what happened to that young man, where were the other politicians?
Sitting back, staying out of the way, that's where they were!
You're just another lying lefty, indulging in the lefts favourite pastime of spinning, when what you should have been doing if you really cared, was getting involved and sorting out the mess you landed us in in the first place!
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Have a spoonful of this and then tell me I'm wrong.
http://www.news-alliance.com/new_labours_communist_red_brigade.html
Craig,
Same old, same old! The link you posted is to a right wing site. Again we see propaganda and no policy from you. We live in a multi cultural society crime will reflect that. The thing is the BNP think that by banning all immigration it will sort out all the issues, well it won't!
The BNP will not be elected by this country so their vile ideals will never be realised! Craig will come back at me and accuse me of being a "leftie" and a "bigot" because all we ever get is insults, wrong labels and no in depth policy.
Terry, what the return of power to people give us, bloody anarchy, thats what. I would love to go out when the local prats start round hear and bang a few heads together, belive you me. Two things stop me. I'm not fit and its illegel to do so. You simpley could not let people take justace into there hands. The police sould be given more powers to sort the buggers out, I know policemen and they get frutrated about there lack of power aganst these yobs, they need the power to slam down hard on them, and the courts must understand that we have had a bellyfull of these kids actions and deal with them better, lock the buggers up, if the prisons are full, build more and if weppons are found on therm, yes 5 years min. inside.
Tony, why is it that when I put facts before you, it's propaganda?
Right wing, left wing, it doesn't
matter, it is the fact that what is said is true, that's what counts.
I thought you were organising a
debate at which ALL parties would
disclose their policy ideas as they challenge for the leadership of the council? Or does policy disclosure only apply in the case of the BNP Tony?
The vilest people in this country have already been elected, as can be seen by all the communist party members and sympathisers that fill the ranks of the Labour party, every one of them a traitor to the people of Britain. You just watch how the BNP continue to grow, you just watch as we challenge for seats in the european parliament, then you tell me we have no chance of being elected.
As to your assertions that it is a right wing site, I wouldn't know,
this morning was my first visit.
Craig,
I have no problem with you pushing your parties ideals on this site, it is indeed what we are here for. People will make up their own minds whether you are electable.
What gets me though Craig is the amount of spin in your posts. ie everyone who supports labour is a communist, everyone who embraces multi culturism is a traitor to the country and blah, blah, blah!
But they are or were members of the bloody communist party!!
Where's the spin in telling it as it is??
Brooneyes, you ask why has Stephen Lawrence received much more coverage than Kriss Donald?
The reason is that the vile murderers of Kriss Donald have been soundly convicted where as the murderers of Stephen Lawrence are still at large due in no small part to the ineptitude of The Metropolitan Police!
So every member of Labour has been or is a member of the Communist party? I was a Labour member for years and i have never been a member of the communist party and i think they are as extreme (left) as you are (right)
Don't believe you Craig... Sorry!
OK Big John, why is it you've never heard of Gavin Hopley, or
Chris Yates? Why haven't they had justice?
I never said you were communist Tony, just that party you lent your vote to.
So many of the top people in the party are extremists. We knew they were, it's good to get it out in the open so that the electorate can see what they really are too.
Brooneyes, I have heard of Gavin Hopley and Chris Yates.
Then why haven't they been afforded the same attention as
Lawrence and Walker? Three asians
stamped and beat Chris Yates so badly, every bone in his face was broken. The offenders were heard by witnesses shouting racial abuse at him as he was assaulted, but the judge decides that it wasn't a racist attack?!
There are so many cases where just this biased behaviour from the police, judges, or the
Criminal Protection Squad is clearly evident, yet mention it and all the reds start wetting their pants and shouting racist!
If you're as tired as I am of hearing about Stephen Lawrence,
imagine how tired you'd be if Chris
Yates had been black or asian.
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