What we need is the type of debate that they have in America for the Presidential Elections. You know the ones where they go toe to toe on a stage in front of the nation!
Picture the scene Mike Barnes (democracy4stoke) and Paul Breeze (pro mayor campaigner) standing on the stage on the Kings Hall walking the walk and talking the talk about the pro's and con's of each system being grilled by those two nice Sentinel people that present the "Our Heroes" awards (they look like telly stars those two!).
Seriously we need a massive turn out to this referendum on the 23rd October. We need to hear the voice of the people loud and clear. Politicians need to make themselves heard and more importantly Mike Barnes and Paul Breeze need to have a public debate that can be followed on radio so that the public can choose the outcome best for the city, whichever that might be.
We at pitsnpots have already started to debate the merits of each system and there have been some good points raised, but more information is needed as people are still confused about the options. We need to make sure those people who have a vote but don't have English as their first language understand what they are voting for. Organisations like the REC & the Shelton Islamic Centre have to play their part and if all this happens we should look forward to a massive turnout.
In 2005 we had a 46% turnout and to be honest that was not good enough, more than half that were eligible to vote could not be bothered.
This time with everything that has gone on in the city whilst the present mayor has been in power i think we will see a massive turnout. People motivated by the schools reorganisation, the closing of elderly care provisions and things like the Dimensions fiasco will motivate people to get to the polling stations and have their say. Also in 2005 the vote for mayor was on the same day as a general election and perhaps was somewhat overshadowed by it. Whatever the circumstances, the two opposing sides to this debate need to bring their points to us the people of this great city, a city which recently has been a bit of a laughing stock but with the right system can and will be a great credit to it's population. So come on Councilor Barnes and Mr Breeze bring it on! Don't let the debate be heard in small venues in front of small audiences, think big, think bold, THINK STOKE!
To read a great and well written piece on this in today's Sentinel Click Here:
http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/news/Stoke-Trent-mayoral-referendum-needs-big-turnout/article-379657-detail/article.html
38 comments:
Found this out today:-
A Council Leader must be a serving councillor. So if they stop being a
Councillor for any reason, such as losing their seat, or resigning from the council, they would cease to be Leader of the Council.
The Council Leader would retain their ward responsibilities in addition to their responsibilities as Leader
We need to expand on the debate you want, and extend it out to all the political parties and what they intend to do for the future of this city. This is where the real debate lies. I can't wait to hear what Roger Ibbs has lined up for the people of this city, or the other one, Joy Garner!
If it is decided that an elected mayor is the choice, then we should have a debate with all the candidates and what they plan to do. That could be a real eyeopener
as well!
If indeed the referendum goes the way of an elected mayoral system then I believe an Independent candidate will be the best choice all round. A party affiliated candidate would be bound by party restrictions and allegiances.
And your example of course is Mark Meredith who proves that party restrictions and alliegiences means bringing in Roger Ibbs, a Conservative.
The whole of the Labour Party is up in arms about this and therefore Nigel's view is flawed, simply because it is wrong.
A Tory Mayor will always be a Tory and likewise a Labour Mayor will always be a Socialist, naturally,a BNP Mayor would be a racist.
Nigel, that must have been some bump on the head you got! You're talking the kind of garbage I'd expect from that idiot Elsby. Wolfe was an independent and got nowhere because he didn't deal with all the parties.
Craig,I was merely stating an opinion, there was no need for your usual vitriolic venom. Gary seemed to be able to disagree with me without resorting to childish name calling.
If indeed Mike Wolfe failed then it is his OWN fault for not working with all the councillors. I stand by my opinion that we need an Independant candidate who is willing to work with all the other councillors and is free from a party political agenda.
Craig, i wish you were more like Terry. Now theres a BNP member who is capable of debating the issue without resorting to the personal stuff. I know Gary and welcome his input as a labour member for many many years and he's no idiot. You may not agree with him but that doesn't make him any more of an idiot than you. Craig in response to your post about widening the debate i think thay would be better after the city has decided which system it wants. In this instance the "YES" campaign and the "NO" campaign.
Nige,
I agree if we choose the mayoral route then it's an independent for me too as in not an independent councilor but someone who is independent of a party. Mike Wolfe would by my choice without a doubt, a man who wants whats best for the people not a party. Craigs right in a way because Mike did not deal with the parties but my understanding of this is that they did not want to deal with him because he wasn't a party puppet!
MMMM was it Mike Wolfe that wouldn't work with parties, OR parties that wouldnt work with Mike Wolfe? Since the Elected Mayor system was brought in SOME councillors have continual fought the system and refused to work with the Mayor, its not the Mayor system thats flawed, but some councillors refusal to accept and work with it.
Thats scary Ian, same thoughts 5mins apart!
I thought that when I posted and saw yours. they say we're in league or something
Tony,
I've spent at least the last 6 months taking abuse from Elsby, and others, on the Sentinel site.
Give me a chance to get into my stride, I haven't done this for a long time.
Nigel, I know it's your opinion, and you've every right to express it. But I have every right to disagree with you, as you do with me. Don't be so thin skinned.
Terry is a lovely guy, but we're different people, tough titty if you don't like it. Sorry, but the good side of me is I won't lie to you. So it evens out overall.
Craig, don't get me wrong, I find it quite refreshing that a BNP member is actually honest about their true feelings and intentions instead of the innuendo and double speak you usually get from your lot.
I find Craig Pond to be a mental case who is mentally deranged. A racist who is mentally deranged is train crash waiting to happen. No doubt he'll blame a black driver if that actually happens.
Lunatic.
Gary, who do you think you are fooling? You write like a lobotomised chimp, and I'm sorry, but everyone knows it's you!
I am sorry to dispel your theory of my mental condition, though I bow to your greater knowledge of such things, but I am as always,
compus mentis.
Deranged idiot.
Hmmm... I sense this comment stream is degenerating somewhat! I suppose that's maybe partly because it can (I've started being censored by the sentinel now so I can understand people's frustrations - and I didn't even use any swears).
Getting back to the point, I think a debate between the two opposing sides would be a very good idea. I find it a bit odd actually that the original consultation information that the council sent out isn't available now on the council's web site (or if it is I'm not clever enough to find it). You'd think now it's coming to a vote this should be available for those who didn't get around to looking at it properly before.
Apathy, yes I agree it's a bad thing. And I'll confess my guilt in this respect in the past. I know now it was wrong not to be
too bothered. Then
things start going badly wrong and I get interested in local politics, even though I'm
still sitting on the fence party politically and maybe will continue
to.
I'm intending to vote yes for leader but actually one of the problems is that neither system is that great, so in some sense how important is this? Will we just get someone awful in charge putting their cronies in cabinet either way?
Meanwhile Craig, Nigel, Gary, clearly you are free to
throw insults at each other, but I think it might be quite good to get along with eachother sometimes.
Or am I just being a wet wimp...
Nicky, no you're not a wet wimp, but you are mistaken over the system that you want for the city.
The ONE major difference between the two systems is that the mayoral system, or "no" vote, gives the people of this city the chance to choose who they want. The
leader system, or "yes" vote, will be decided within the wall of the Civic Centre, and will involve funny handshakes, bribery of numerous kinds, and deals done behind closed doors.
There are some of you worried at the prospect of a BNP elected mayor
as we are an 'unknown', but I guarantee you now, that is a better
deal than Roger Ibbs or Joy Garner!
Your vote on the 23rd isn't just
about the system you choose, but the kind of person you end up with as mayor. Choose wisely, guys.
Brooneyes, well you have just confused me again, ha ha. From the beginning I had decided it had to be Mayor and Cabinet, that was until last week, when the doubts started to kick in. Last, night, I was definitely going to go for Leader and Cabinet, and I would not change my mind. The reason I changed my mind for a Mayor was, with no offence to the BNP followers, was, it has been strongly rumoured that Nick Griffin would put himself up, if the people opted for the Mayoral system. This is a guy that I would have major concerns about, running our City. That is just my opinion. So, Leader it was. There is just one thing that keeps putting me off Leader, and that is the people won't have the choice. At least with the Leader system, the Councillors will or should I say, should, have more of an input, in decisions that are made for the City?? Also, if they don't do a good job, the Councillors can vote them off. Im swaying towards Leader again. How many people are doing the same? Two weeks to go, to decide.
Nita, Nick Griffin will not be putting himself up for mayor of Stoke-on-Trent! lol.
I'm laughing with you, not at you. Like I said earlier, I understand that the BNP are a relatively unknown quantity, but when you look at what you have on offer, the BNP have to be the increasingly attractive offer on the table.
60 years Labour has ruled the roost here in Stoke-on-Trent, and all they have managed to do is turn this once proud city into a ghost town. In the recent history of local politics, we have seen both the Tories and the LibDems sell out to Meredith for thirty pieces of silver, and as much as they might squeal against such statements, take a look at what Ibbs and Irving did. Just when the people that elected them needed them most, both Ibbs and Irving turned their backs on the people of Trentham and sided with this Meredith led council.
The LibDems, who are they and what do they stand for? The only one I've seen is Jean Bowers, and her one input into the education debate was to state that what the schools looked like, or where they were, made no difference!
You could look to an independent candidate, but the first thing an independent is going to have to do is make alliances. There is simply no way a truly independent person could survive in the realm of party politics.
The BNP are untested in Stoke-on-Trent at this level, but having just achieved a seat on the GLA and had an immediate impact, things are looking good. The BNP run summer schools that teach all the different facets of politics, both local and national, and one of the things I like best about the BNP is that you will not be limited to what the members in Stoke-on-Trent know. The entire
knowledge pool of the BNP will be available to us, and despite what some would have you believe, there are some extremely clever people associated with this party, academically and politically.
So there you have it! The decision you make in the referendum will be based on what
system you believe will be best for this city, but you must also consider the consequences of the system you vote for, and the people it will allow in. I am obviously partisan toward the BNP,
but I think the most sound advice
you could get, would be to take a look at who is likliest to get in under each system, and decide how to vote from there.
When I read Craig's account of the wonderful BNP I just simply smile.
We run summer schools, he says.
Labour have been doing this for a hundred years and I've been on many.The West Midland regional conference is up soon and is held over two dayswith classes on various subjects (Europe,elections, economy, industry,campaigning etc.)
The National Conference has just been held and a 'composite motion'(an emergency motion) was written by me and is being considered for action. (a windfall atax on energy companies to be redistributed to poorest families during winter).
The BNP held their own annual confereence not long ago and it descended into a street brawl, which is on youtube!They raided their own offices using South African security guards and confiscated their own computers (mentioned by Crudass in Parlaiment).
So who is this 'intellectual' within the ranks of the BNP, Craig? Do tell. Make my day!
Try and have a serious conversation when up pops the
"Lefty retard from Abbey Green."
I never said other parties didn't run educational programmes did I? What you seem to constantly miss, especially when it comes to the Labour party, is that most of the members are too thick to teach!
How the hell can you brag about
summer schools when there is a litany of disaster attatched to your party? What do they teach you Labourites, "How to make a mess of things and talk complete b*llocks."
I think this is a class you've not only been through, but are now qualified to teach!
You wrote that incredibly creative, "a windfall tax on energy." Congratulations, that's only been floating about since last year!
You can delude yourself into thinking you're something special,
you might even convince one or two of the more susceptible patrons of this site, but eventually Gary, everyone will come to the same conclusions as I have, you're a delusional tosser.
Craig, why do you continually insult me? I don't insult you, so why do you resort to personally insult me?
I've stated facts, so either respond to those facts or don't.
Choice is yours.
You know Gary, if you really wanted to present a useful energy policy suggestion to your party,
perhaps what you should have done was suggest that they didn't sell Britains nuclear capability to the French, that would have been a good idea.
Or how about lambasting the leadership over its inexcusable failure to implement a research and development programme over a decade ago to advance our knowledge of new and renewable sources of energy. Increasing the efficiency of both turbines and
voltaic cells would have been an
intelligent move to make.
Our annual conference did not turn into a brawl!
The only slight trouble there has ever been at our annual conference was caused by lefty scum, surprise surprise.
Craig, the Government does all of those things you suggest and is a leader in the field of renewable energy sources and is heading for full compliance with the EU guidlines and laws on renewables.
A bit of a folly, really.
The French are probably the world's leading authority on Nuclear energy and it makes a great deal of sense tapping into their expertise. The current view is ten new nuclear power stations is more cost effective than one.
Your 'annual conference' did turn into a street brawl and members were fighting amongst themselves and it was to do with 'accounts'.
All stars in the video are BNP members and its for the whole world to witness.
....and you want Nick or Simon to be Mayor.
10/10.
Don't you listen?
The government do all the things I've suggested? Then why would I bloody suggest them then?!
Tapping into foreign expertise is one thing, selling your nuclear capability to them because you're too stupid and inefficient to sort it out yourself, is another!
Why do you and other Labour losers keep harping on about a group of rebels that tried for a coup, and failed? They were kicked out of the party and that's that.
You want some real juice on dirty politicians, how about,
Jonathon Phillips, Labour, child
pornograpy.
John Holden, Labour, fraud.
Tommy Williams, Labour, fraud.
Ivan Lewis MP, Labour, sexual
harrassment.
Liam Smith, Labour, Homophobic attack.
Joginder Saroe, Labour, benefit fraud.
Christine Ludlow, Labour mayoress,
violence.
Your party is riddled with crime and corruption, and I for one believe that you should get your own gigantic mess cleaned up, before you start complaining of the few crumbs we have left.
Ok, Craig, let me ask your advice.
What should I or 'Labour' do about a member who has committed an act of either fraud or violence?
Adolph Hitler (Nationalist)
6 Million jews gassed (crime? being a jew)
50 Million war dead.
Nationalism always expands into conflict, normally played out in a foreign Country.
How can you accuse nationalism of being responsible for conflict?!
Who took us into Afghanistan and Iraq??
I've never heard such hypocricy in all my life!
And while we're on the subject of your insane ramblings, Hitler was
responsible for the killing of 15-20 million, a figure so large it's hard to comprehend.
Stalin was responsible for the murder of 100 million!! His own people too! And whereas your political philosophy is based directly on the teachings of him and Marx, ours have nothing at all to do with that psychopathic house
painter from Austria!
Nationalism always expands in to conflict? What utter rubbish.
The biggest danger this country faces is from you leftist maniacs
whose idea of fair politics is to give away everything the indigenous workers have worked to save!
Craig and Gary,
This has gone off task somewhat this debate was on the best systems of governance for our city. Whilst we have gone off topic i would like to get your views on the "Voice of Change" organisation, read here:
http://www.voiceofchange.org.uk/about.php
Tony,
why would Craig want to comment on their page, I would have thought he would want nothing to do with people who nearly tore his beloved and wonderful party up.
GEE UP CRAIG EVEN US AT SCHOOL KNOW THAT HITLER AND THE BNP ARE THE SAME THING.STEVE BATKIN SAYS ITS ALL LIES AND HITLER WAS GOOD.
THE MAYOR SHOULD GO BECAUSE HE COSTS £400,000. WATS HARD ABOUT THAT? A LEADER COSTS ABOUT £30K.
DUH!WHO GIVES A MONKEYS WHO PUTS HIM OR HER IN.
Zedda, I've told you before, youth is no excuse for ignorance, so if you're going to qwrite get the bloody facts straight.
The mayor at the minute costs £1.3 million, him and his entourage( that's French for gang)
Thank you for your political incisiveness and sparkling repartee, d'oh.
YEAH CRAIG BUT YOU'LL DO IT FOR HALF THE PRICE AND COST THE CITY £650,000.
WHAT A SWIZZ. NO WONDER MY HISTORY TEACHER HATES THE BNP. HE'S A MEMBER OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY AND WE ALL HATE THE BNP TOO NOW.
Jesus, I didn't realise just how many imbeciles resided in this city!
Zedda, another one with a Scrabble name, doesn't seem to understand that he/she/it is too young to vote! I don't care if you don't like what we have to offer, when you're old enough to vote, you can make your own choice. And while we're on the subject, you can tell your history teacher he's a tosser, just like all the other commies; Jack Straw, Gordon Brown,
Milliband, John Reid, etc, etc.
CRAIG MY HISTORY TEACHER THINKS YOU ARE A MENTAL JOB. WE HAVE JUST DONE AN ESSAY ON POLITICAL PARTIES BUT WE HAVE WRITTEN MORE ABOUT COMMUNISTS THAN OTHER ONES.
I NOW OWN TRENTHAM GARDENS AND ONE OF MY MATES OWNS ALTON TOWERS! WE ALL OWN EVERYTHING FOR FREE!
MY TEACHER SAYS THAT THE BNP WOULD TAKE IT ALL OF US AND PROBABLY GAS US.
I have just been on the Sentinel website and they've got a poll running - "If the referendum took place today, how would you vote?"
2524 votes cast, 71% for Elected Mayor, 29% for Leader & Cabinet.
Wonder whether 2500+ people will bother to actually go out and vote on the day, and if so, will this be the result?
There is still not enough information out there, people are still confused and undecided what to vote for.
I don't see how the city can win. Any ideas anyone?
Look Alison, I know how the city can win. You've tried the rest, now pick the best!
The Sentinel polls mean nothing because you get to vote every time you visit the page if you want to. So a lot of those votes could be from the same people. I don't know why they bother to run them.
I've also found them increasingly biased recently and they are censoring my comments something shocking. Yes some of them are critical but I back up my comments with facts and I'm not rude and don't swear. I try to abide by their rules but am unclear where the line is.
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