Wednesday, 1 October 2008


I read with interest David Cameron's comments about the BNP in Stoke on Trent, as reported on the Sentinel Website. He states, that the Conservatives need to work really hard in the area, to try and get the people, to vote Conservative, who have turned from the main parties, and are now voting for the BNP. This is all very interesting. I can remember years ago, if the people in the City were unhappy with Labour, they would normally make a protest vote and choose Conservative or Liberal Democrats. My question is, what has gone wrong, that people are now turning to the BNP? Are the three main parties so out of touch with the local people? I know of people, who years ago would not have ever voted for the BNP, but are doing so now. We at Pits n Pots would welcome your opinions, on what you think is the problem with the politics in this City. Do the people really think that the BNP are capable of running this City. If after the Referendum, the people decide they want a Mayor and Cabinet, lets take for example Nick Griffin, BNP stands, will people want such a person in charge of our City? Give us
your views.


Kelly said...

My message to David Cameron would be "GO AWAY David, at least we have people here willing to fight for us". Because of you and the imbeciles running the country we are crawling with money sucking creatures out for a free ride from other countries. Shut up David, you're an idiot, you shouldnt talk.

nita said...

Welcome to the site Kelly, and thanks for making your comments. Hope to see you back again. When you say, "at least we have people willing to fight for us", do you mean the BNP? Is that how you see it. Do you think that this is the only party that is seen to be listening? Are you one of those people that has had enough of Labour, and has turned to the BNP, or have you always supported them? I do agree on one thing, we are letting too many people into the country, and like you say, they are moving straight into homes and getting benefits. That is not to say all people that have moved here are the same, many hold jobs and earn their way. Welcome to the debate, pass the name to as many people as you can. We want people to come on here and say exactly what they think, plus you can post 24 hours a day.

british and proud said...

Everyone that comes here from Africa and Kosovo only want to go on the dole or have benefits rather than go work.There kids should be taken away from them and only given back to them when they get a job preferebly in there own country.

nita said...

I saw an interesting thing on Ross Kemp on Gangs, whereby Bulgarians were coming into the country, and were pick pocketing on the London tube stations. They could make upto £2,000 a day or more. Very often this money did not go back into our system. Amazing how this can be allowed to go on.

James said...

The Sentinel reported something that David Cameron may never have said. I certainly couldn't find any reference to the BNP or Stoke on Trent in the speech he made at the conference this afternoon.

I would therefore contend that this was deliberate attempt by the Sentinel to raise the BNP's profile. The Sentinel is owned by the Daily Mail group and it has always struck me that the Mail/Express/Sun play both ends. On the one hand they whip things up, draw attention to the BNP and publish the kind of stories of that generate support for them but at the same they continually condemn their presence on the British political scene.

Glad to see that Kelly believes in free speech. If this is the idea of free speech that ordinary BNP supporters openly express I suggest that Nick Griffin starts gripping the party faithful before they undermine all that hard work he's put into changing the party image. Before anyone in this city complains about foreigners taking a free ride we need to sort out all the dole dossers and the false incapacity claimants, otherwise it smacks of hypocrisy.

nita said...

James, welcome to the site. You make a good point. When did David Cameron actually say these comments? I listened to his speach yesterday, and he never mentioned the BNP in Stoke on Trent. If he didnt say it this afternoon, they when did it happen? Hey I am no BNP Supporter, and agree that there are certain people who are whinging about foreigners taking off the state, when they are doing exactly the same themselves. Double standards really. However, if the BNP have been elected, they have to be allowed to to the same as the other parties. I just cannot believe that for year after year this city has been a Labour stronghold, and now the people would rather trust the BNP. Lets face it, like James says, they have managed to change their image, and have now to some people (pensioners especially), become very electable. I like a bit of multi culturism, and have no problem with anyone just because of the colour of their skin. However, certain sections of the foreign community do not want to mix. Ok, its fine not to be the best of friends, but a bit of respect on both sides, goes a long way. Anyway, who will be voting for the Conservatives at the next elections? I see it like this, a red never changes to a blue, and a blue never changes to a red. They then go for the next best thing, and that is, in our City, the BNP.

brooneyes said...

My name is Craig Pond, I'm the Chair of the policy group, and the Branch Secretary of Stoke-on-Trent
BNP, and I'm here to tell you I'm fed up with the retarded posts by some of the ignorant and bigotted
monkeys who post here, and on the Sentinel site.
There is Warren the dyslexic imbecile, the egotistical snob James from Penkhull, there's a
neanderthal journo called Tony, we
have Joy "eclipse" Garner, and doubtless numerous other numbskulls who think they have enough in the brainbank to constructively criticise, when all they cactually do is namecall and take the p***. And if the shower of second raters I just mentioned above isn't enough, that public school sissy, Cameron, is threatening to take us on in the City. We say bring it on Cameron!
The day will never come when we can't take on a man that changes his position more often than most of us blink! This is a man that has
refused to withdraw the country from the EU, despite the fact that over 80% of laws concerning this country are now made in the EU,and so any legal decisions made by him and the government he forms, can be overruled by the EU! He is a shallow, empty shell, that doesn't seem to stand for anything in particular, and will only win the next election because of NuLabs
complete inability to to get the smallest thing right. Once in power, his incompetence and lack of
intestinal fortitude will see this country subjected to another four or five years of the same immigration lead destruction.
To those I named at the start, if you are going to criticise, let's have some facts to back up what you've got to say, and if you can't back it up, keep it yourself.

planejin said...

Just a few points to make about the whole issue. I may be sometime!

In the 1940's our government signed up to the United Nations and therefore the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, NATO, the European Union and therefore The European human rights laws and freedom of movement within the EU.

The government of the day did this in the hope of preventing the terrible crimes of WW2 occuring again. Only they haven't stopped have they; Rwanda, Sudan, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq...etc.

But, they signed up to help those in need flee, to help asylum seekers who fear for their own or their families lives. So they come here...they aren't primarily after 'the dole' they don't know what 'the dole' is. They flee beacuse they know in the UK they'll be safe. They also flee to other EU countries as well as the US. Don't be so naive to assume they all come here.

Asylum seekers aside, the Polish come because the law of the EU allows them to, as well as other EU nations. They come to earn more money than they would in their own country - would you if you had the same opportunity? They send it home to support their families - you would to I assume?

The Polish do however pay their taxes - they have to if they are employed legitimately, not by scumbags who use them.

Asylum seekers do not get free council houses and handouts - they are kept in detention centres much like prisons until their cases have been heard and they allowed to stay and work until the troubles in their country are over. Again they may be offeed a council house if their case is legit.

There is an issue with illegal migrants - no one even the most liberal can argue with that. But, if you knew you could get away with it - you would. We shouldn't be persecuting the human being for their actions but, the government for not having tighter border controls to stop ILLEGAL imigrants. The BNP want as far as I'm aware to stop all asylum and immigration whether illegal or not. This isn't the way forward, they way forward is to encourage legal migration and asylum and prevent the illegal kind.

We need immigration to bolster the UK workforce. You only have to look in the sentinel on a Wednesday to see the amount of jobs going. Most low skilled granted - but, there aren't enough native British to be bothered to get off their arse to do these jobs, that's why we still need migration.

After the wars lots of native British men were killed and injured and Britain needed re building. We ASKED those from abroad to help and as a reward we allowed them to settle. Their families have been her for generation - the BNP propose to get rid of them all - how ridiculous especially after what they did for us!

Our empire screwed over much of the world - while I DO NOT condone terrorism, you can understand why some have grievances against us...we split India and forced families to split up and decide whether it would be India or Pakistan for them (that's put very simply). I'd be pissed if some foreign country did that to my country.

Not everyone who is Asian is a Muslim and not every Muslim is a terrorist. There are many different religions from Christian, to Hindu and Sikh and Buddist. Just because someone wants to dress a certain way doesn't mean we should treat them with contempt. Just beacuse they have different customs doesn't mean we can't live with them. Just beacuse they have different gender roles doesn't mean they are an inferior race. It wasn't too long ago that women native to the UK died for the right to vote, that women were frowned upon for going out to work, that ladies and gentlemen all wore a certain type of atire and as women were certainly couldn't have showed as much flesh 50 years ago as we do today.

My point is there are rights and wrong to immigration but all this keep Britain British crap is nonsense. I don't want to live in a society where everyone believes in the same God, wears the same clothes, etc. I don't want to live in a country with white scum still un willing to get off their arse and do a low paid poorly skilled job - because they think they're worthy of more. We need immigration to keep this country going and the BNP will NOT solve the countries problems by preventing it. They'll make things worse. Anyone who believes otherwise is disillusuioned. I am proud our nation and our government signed up to the UN and EU 50 years ago to make immigration possible and legal, to encorage people to come. I am proud our government cared about human beings and weren't bothered about race and culture. I am proud they stood up for such values that our forefathers faught for. A free world where people could move and be safe. I am disgusted by the BNP who want to prevent it.

Immigration is not the countires problem. The problem is those native British who think the world owes them a favour and they aren't willing to work to get it. That is's everyone else fault but their own.

Tony said...

Wow! That was a heck of a post Craig if you are Craig! I'm Tony and i'm no journo. I run a local business and i try to be fair and truthfull in all that i post. If you take the time to read the previous blogs on pitsnpots then you would know that we are here to facilitate debate and to give everyone the opportunity to have their say. My politics don't lie with the BNP but i have acknowledged that some of the BNP councilors have been effective in dealing with their ward issues. The truth is i was a Labour member until recently but i resigned over the way our Labour mayor is running our city and the gaaging order which Joy Garner says does not exist but prevents the Labour councilors i have spoken to of coming out in opposition to the direction that our maverick mayor is taking us.
Mike Coleman seems to represent the "acceptable side of your party but you exude hatred in your posts, when done and said all there is no need to resort to insults. Maybe this is who you are, but would welcome debate without the personal insults. Unlike the Sentinel your posts won't be removed or edited and despite your anger you are welcome here at pitsnpots. I am enjoying being a floating voter and i want representatives of all parties to post their visions for our city to give me and my mate Steve (another floater!) an idea of who to vote for. Craig i hope that you enjoy the debates on our blog and it is a blog for all the cities population whire, black asian eastern european. Maybe we will see Mr Cope and others as well as Joy Garner who knows?........
By the way David Cameron promised a referendum on the EU treaty which Gordon Brown failed to deliver. I believe that he gave a showstopping performance today and the tories i know think that has sealed the election victory

Anonymous said...

I doubt that post by Craig Pond was genuine. For one thing the BNP are always to trying to highlight their belief in free speech and that post totally undermined that stance. Either that, or the poster hasn't understood their duplicity.

nita said...

Booneyes (Craig Pond), glad you have decided to make your points. I am neither ignorant or bigotted. You seem to be missing the point, we are not here to critisize anyone. We just want a good debate on as many topics as we can. I personally dont think there will ever be a day when the Conservatives take over the City do you. I do hope, however, that the good people do the right thing and vote for a Mayor and cabinet. Planejin, you make some extremely fair points, and you tell it as it is. Most people have no problem with asylum seekers, as some countries are dangerous places to live. I cannot support illegal asylum seekers though. You are also correct, when you state that the polish people that have come here, are hard working, very often doing the jobs that we do not want. Thanks for the debate

brooneyes said...

First off, I am Craig Pond. Tony, do try not to be a drama queen.
"Exude hatered?" For Gods sake man, get a grip!lol. It's the closest thing you will get to a dead certainty that Cameron will take the next election, and your comment about the quality of BNP councillors was way off the mark and exactly the kind of comment I complained of previously.
One of the things that gets to me is the way we get blamed and criticised when we haven't had our chance to show what we can do. The
LibLabCon are directly to blame for the dreadful state this city is in, yet it is the BNP on the receiving end of the flak. In the past couple of weeks the BNP has handed to the council a two stage bio-fuels policy proposal, the smaller part of which could save this council hundreds of thousands of pounds, and yet not a peep. I have just submitted a by-law application for the citywide banning of the public consumption of alcohol, but to be fair, that only went in a couple of days ago.
The point is, because of this bias from every media outlet, we don't get the chance to openly debate the
subjects that we need to discuss in order to solve the problems attatched to them. If you're serious about debating on here, then ask your questions and I promise you honest answers. If there's anything I don't know, I'll find out for you, BUT, if the BNP do this then we will expect you to question the other parties with equal vigour, and slate those that don't take part.
Nice post Kelly, agree with what you say. Remember it will only be the BNP that cure the problems that you highlight.

Anonymous said...

Just like to thank Craig Pond for clarifying the BNP position on free speech. For months we've had the party calling to defend the right to free speech and leading members asking us to respect their right to it.

Yet here we have their branch secretary telling us how he is fed up with certain people exercising that same right and even resorting to using childish insults (something he accuses the same people of doing to the BNP). He also agrees with the first post by Kelly who is telling David Cameron to shut up because he has exercised his right of free speech.

So come on BNP, be honest with us, do you really believe in free speech or just the right to agree with what you say and believe? Because from Craig's post it seems apparent that the BNP do not believe that freedom of speech should be extended to their opponents. Expect some serious backtracking and accusations of mis-quoting on this space soon.

brooneyes said...

To anonymous.
The BNP most certainly do believe in free speech, which is what I was exercising my right to when I criticised you lot. Of course, there are things you don't know about that make a big difference to the ability to debate. Sassi, the editor-in-chief of the Sentinel, has banned me from commenting. The problem is, very little in what the BNP sends to the Sentinel gets published, so we end up just having to sit back and take it, not because we want to, but because we don't at the minute have any other choice.
You can't have this both ways. You are quite happy to write letters or leave comments of a derogatory nature, but the second I use the same tactics against you,
you're crying foul!
The BNP stance on freedom of speech is clear. The only limit to
freedom of speech should be the
incitement to violence. That's the point at which the law should step in. Prior to that, then you won't have freedom of speech if the law says you might cause offense. I do hope that has made it clearer.

nita said...

Brooneyes. Thanks for your comments, and they make a fair point. A few years ago, myself and a few colleagues had a conversation with a group of BNP members who were delivering leaflets on the estate. When we asked the question, if the people you want to send home are born here, how is this possible? The reply was, they should all be kicked out. Now on the other hand, we had a recent conversation with a BNP Councillor, who said, if people were born here, then they would be treated the same. What is your personal stance on this? To clarify, we do actually critisise all parties. I speak as I find, and some of those BNP members leafleting our estate had extreme views, which is upto them, I suppose. In fairness, that was a few years ago, and the BNP has changed its image, on the outside anyway. The BNP put out derogatory comments on Longton High School, but now we have a BNP Councillor sitting on the Governing Body. That just shows, that the Councillors, are breaking down the barriers, and getting into the Community, and doing their bit. If we can critisise, we could say not one Labour Councillor put themselves up for the governor place. Whether people support or do not support the BNP, they have been elected, and there is a reason for that. People must see that they are the only ones listening to what people want and taking action. Many Labour voters, have just had enough of how the city is being run. We have a Labour Mayor, but we have all other parties sitting on these special committees, which is great, as it gives everyone an input. However, these people get paid extra benefits for doing so. My concern is, do these people agree with Mr Meredith, just so they can continue to sit on these committees, and dont lose money, or do they actually agree with decisions being made? What does everyone think??

brooneyes said...

there is as far as I can see, a complete misunderstanding on behalf of the indigenous British as to what represnets British. We say, there is more to being any nationality than just being born there. Joanna Lumley was born in India, but would you say she was Indian? Of course not, she is
English. She just happened to be born somewhere else.
What's happening in Britain now is the same thing, only in reverse.
In 2007, nearly a quarter of all births in Britain were to newly arrived immigrant women. Add to that number the births to second and third generation immigrants and this idea of saying anyone born here can stay here will mean the white native Brits are a minority in their own country by 2060. Why should we put up with this when at least half the foreigners in this country shouldn't be here?
We would deport ALL illegal immigrants, all foreign criminals and their families, most refugees and asylum seekers. The only immigrants left in the country would be those legally allowed to be here, and we would offer them a
lump sum to return to their countries of origin, though this scheme would be completely voluntary. Those that decided to stay would have to adjust their way of life to British law and regulations. No more mosques, no more headscarves for schoolchildren, no more ritually prepared meat- halal or kosher- no
more segregation, integration would be the key.
As to special payments, it seems that Meredith uses them get people on side. Roger Ibbs?! Peter Kent Bagguley, the atrocious Joy Garner, Irving, Lyth, it's just one big list of perverts, moneygrabbers, incompetents and third rate dross. This is why it is so important that the BNP get the message out that there is another way. Some people don't like being told the truth, especially when its critical of them, but local politics would be such a better place if we applied some honsety.

Anonymous said...

Craig, if you stopped making derisory and personal comments towards your opponets then people would be more inclined to believe the BNP truly stands for freedom of speech. Actions speak louder than words. Instead of the things you say about Warren, James, Joy etc... counter them with valid arguments in a similar manner to them, not resort to calling them names. At the moment you are saying you believe in free speech but acting as though you don't. If the BNP truly wants to be elected in this country then you have to expand your appeal to Middle England.

brooneyes said...

there is a difference between gratuitous namecalling and telling the truth. I simply told the truth. How have I interfered with your right to free speech? The
people you list have all enjoyed the freedom to take potshots at my party and myself in the local paper, safe in the knowledge that we could not answer back. This excellent site allows for the return of balance, to offer those who wish to debate, a level playing field upon which no-one holds an advantage.
As to your assumption that we need to recruit more from the middle classes, we've been taking people from there in numbers for the past 18 months. One of our Cambridge members recruited 4 ists
in the same week! There was a
microbiologist, a biochemist and two physicists. We have top legal people as friends and members along with a host of other well
educated and highly skilled personnel, some of whom were present in Stoke-on-Trent for the day of action we held on the 20th September. We know what we have to do, but thanks for the pointer.

nita said...

Brooneyes. Thanks for your honest answers to my questions, this is what this site is about. People don't always see eye to eye on the subject of immigration, and I do agree and disagree with your comments. I have met many people of different culutures over the years, and all are honest, friendly, hardworking people. Lets face it there are racists on both sides. I don't necessarily think that BNP voters are racists. Then you have the problem of those that want to keep themselves to themselves, and stay in their own community. Doesn't make them bad people, but doesn't do them any favours either. Having said that, you could say that about anyone. Who hasnt got neighbours that don't want to mix. I have major concerns on how many people are being allowed into the country, this has clearly got to be addressed. It also worries me, that we have people living in the country that want to harm us. As for the building of the mosque in Hanley, I personally don't have a problem with it. Lets face it, half our churches are empty, and at least this building will be used. I believe the issue was the sale of the land. Im not too upto date on this, to be honest. Having said that, we could have done with a care home on there, or a building with community facilities. Keep up the debate.

Anonymous said...

Saw the article yesterday, saw David Cameron's speech and I have to say I'm with James on this one. I don't actually believe that David Cameron said anything along these lines. I reckon The Sentinel made the whole story up.
This is nothing new for the printed press in the UK, papers do make stories up. Remember the one in The Sun about The Red Arrows being banned from the 2012 Olympics for being too British? Totally made up. Not a shred of evidence to support this story. No decision's been made about the opening ceremony, and the RAF had no idea whether the Red Arrows were involved or not.

brooneyes said...

Camerons comments were made after he had finished his speech and was outside the building.
Nita, there are two main problems with immigration into this country. One is the sheer numbers of people being allowed to enter and add to the strain on already
overtaxed systems. The second is islam. Islam and Christianity are at opposite ends of the belief spectrum, and they are so different, there is no way of bringing them together. No-one objects to them following this brutal and backward religion, just as long as it isn't in this country. You have to remember that islam is the religion that says it is alright for a man to smack his wife around, that it is alright to have sex with children(look up
mufa'khathat on the internet) and that such barbarities as female circumcision, forced marriages, and
honour killings are acceptable forms of behaviour. We say, not in this country.
In all honesty, I don't know why any woman would want anything to do with a religion that treats her as nothing more than a belonging that her husband can do with whatever he likes. If you suspect my motives, take a look at this site.

planejin said...

No mosques, no halal meat... how utterley rediculous and selfish. So those that you do allow to stay who have been here for the best part of 60 years or more. Where do they go to worship? Where do they go to buy food. What's wrong with Halal, next you'll be banning vegi's or organic meat. What's going to be left just churches? Will they be Catholic or Protestant? Will you ban Synagogues?

The German government did similar under Hitler's regime. They made the Jewish community put signs in their shops saying they were Jewish, that non Jewish shouldn't frequent them, that forced them out of business. They lost their livelihood, homes...they were told that they would be housed in a place for Jewish refugees, they were taken by trains to concentration camps. They too were bribed - what brooneyes sugesting sound awfully similar - frightening!

And, is it just Asian's you have an issue with? Your writing seems to point that way. So we'll be getting rid of the curry houses will we. Doubt the British will be impressed by that. What and Chinese too? How about Carribean? Your plans are too simplistic and haven't been thought through. They are disgraceful.

You do target those who are disillusioned, those with a lack of understanding and those who've lost hope. I don't care how many ists you have - just because they are an ist doesn't mean they have common sense!

I agree there is a problem with illegal immigration and this needs to be tackled but, certainly not in your foolish and selfish way.

planejin said...

Oh...Christianity is the best religion is it? There are so many backward parts in the Bible. Christainity doesn't like homosexuality according to the bible. We shouldn't use contraception according the the bible. If someone is pregnant through rape - they shouldn't have an abortion according to the bible, no sex before marriage, women couldn't vote in the UK and some died fighting their cause...this was in the UK - this wonderfully British place before mass immigration. We were backward thinking then. The bible hasn't changed - time has changed, we've learnt.

There are thugs in the UK who batter women, rape women, steal - they are a minority, just like a minority of Muslims follow the hardcore part of their religion or are themselves thugs.

There are plenty of Asian people who have lived in the UK for decades and have adapted well to our customs.

Websites incidentally are not a reliable source - I can find a website to back up any thought that springs to mind - doesn't mean it's true!

planejin said...

Brooneyes, I'm not too sure about your statistics. 'In 2007, nearly a quarter of all births in Britain were to newly arrived immigrant women'. You may have found this figure on the national statistics database ( but what this actually tells us is that 23.2% of births in 2007 were to women not born in the UK, not necessarily 'recently arrived'.
This 23.2% of women giving birth are of course not all muslim or even asian. In fact only 25% of them are from Asian countries (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, far east), the other 75% are from places such as Irish republic, Canada, America, Australia, New Zealand, EU countries, Africa. To expand on this then, only 5.8% of births in 2007 were from mothers born in Asian countries and these may not be Muslim - many would be Hindu, Sikh, etc. Brooneyes - I know you might not exclusively be targeting Asian and Muslim immigrants but it does seem that they seem to get most of the focus in immigration debates, and the above statistics may put that into context.

Also, you mentioned that by 2060 white British would be the minority. I fail to see how this would be the case given that half of population growth in the UK in 2007 was due to natural factors such as an increase in fertility therefore leading to more births (some of which multiple due to fertility treatment), and a decrease in death rates due to significant strides made in medicine. I think the latter is more of an issue to the UK than migration. An aging population - living longer but, needing more medical care as a result will drain the UK's finances far more than migrants coming in. At least most migrants contribute to the UK's economy by working and paying their taxes and NI. The figure for population increase in the UK was nearly 400000 in 2007. 200000 being due to migration and 200000 being due to natural causes.

Of the 200000, most are from EU countries due to freedom of movement legislation, a large % are also from the Armed forces with the new decree that new foreign recruits have a right to stay and bring their families.

Maybe to reduce migration and crime we should bring back National Service and encourage white British to get off their arses and contribute to the UK if they really are that patriotic!

brooneyes said...

If anyones foolish and selfish
Planejin, then its you. Not one of the points I made have you answered, you just bluff and bluster pass them saying it's rubbish. You should look up what I suggested. You will find it is from a book called the Hadith, the story of the prophet Mohammed, and not just some website.
Halal and kosher meat would be banned because it's cruel to the animals. They are not stunned prior to being killed, there is a quick blessing said over the animal and then it has it's throat slit. Calfs and cows can take 3 minutes or more to die, that's why we would ban this barbaric method.
You have to learn to read what is there, and not make up what you would like to be there. There is no problem with asians such as sikhs, or hindu's, the problem lies with muslims. Muslim refers to a religion, not a race. There can be a mosque on every street corner of this country, IF the
Saudi Arabian leaders of the muslim world allow the Christians to build churches there, to openly declare their Christianity there,
and to be able to do these things without fear of getting your bloody head cut off because islam says Christians are fair game because they are not of the same faith! You want to get your facts right before you come on here shouting the odds! You say that only a hardcore follow the strict teachings but again, that isn't the case. One in four mosques sell
hardline books and pamphlets, over 40% of young muslims want sharia law in Britain. To a muslim, a muslim woman is a second class person, then come white males, then come white women! Are you so sure you want to defend a religion that would treat you as a dog?
Don't take my word for it, google
mufa'khathat, read from their book what they are allowed to do, and then tell me this is what you want for the people of this country.

planejin said...

Brooneyes - you got it in one - they are getting their teachings froma STORY! 40% is still a minority, Saudi Arabia is one country - not the whole of the Middle East. Christianity doesn't hold up much better depending on what you 'google'! Where is your statistic from that 40% want Sharia law? Just interested - the majority obviously don't.

Are you going to ban battery farmed chickens due to the fact they lives in pain, in a dark room covered in excrement. No - probably not because they feed the white british that want 2 for a fiver at ASDA because they're living off the state. Are you going to ban Veal - calves taken away from their mum's at birth just because they'll get mastitis because they won't suckle enough and comprimise mum's milk supply so we can't get our 30p a pint from ASDA - no probably not. What about the french - chopping frogs legs off whilst still alive - ban them too eh. You are targeting one group of people - it's wrong - blatantley racist. Defintion of racist - assuming superiority over another group / culture. You assume that the Muslim religion is all bad - it is not, some parts of it are - just like there are skeletons in everyone's cupboard!

planejin said...

Although Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the world and more than 3 million Muslims now live in the United States, few Americans know much about Islam's beliefs or followers.
___Like Christianity, Islam traces its roots to Adam. But Muslims follow the lineage of Ishmael, the son born to Abraham by Hagar, maidservant to his wife, Sarah. The Old Testament book of Genesis portrays Ishmael as a perceived threat to Abraham's line through Isaac, who later was born to Abraham and Sarah as the child promised by God to make Abraham "the father of many nations."
___Muslims accept the first five books of the Old Testament, the Psalms and the sayings of Jesus as authentic, but they believe Jews and Christians have corrupted these Scriptures by changing the original texts.
ADHERENTS of Islam number approximately one billion.

rding to Muslim teaching, Allah dictated his final and complete word, the Koran, to the prophet Mohammad early in the seventh century through the angel Gabriel. Although many outsiders believe Muslims and Christians worship one god, Muslims reject the notion of the Trinity and believe that Christians worship three gods in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Muslims do not believe Jesus is the divine Son of God, but merely a prophet. They also deny the bodily resurrection MORE: Baptist profs don't see Islam as 'peaceful'
of Jesus and do not believe Jesus will return to earth in judgment, although they do believe in a day of final judgment.
___According to Islamic teaching, the eternal destiny of all people will be determined by their deeds on earth. Those who have done more good than bad will go to heaven, while those who have done more bad than good will go to hell.
___Muhammad said he received the revelations that are recorded in the Koran over a period of many years. After receiving each revelation, he would return to the streets of Mecca and preach what he had been told.
___Terry Muck, author of the soon-to-be-published "Pocket Guide to America's Religions," describes Muhammad's sermons as having three main points: the uniqueness of Allah; the need to care for the poor, orphaned and widowed; and the inevitability of a final judgment.
___These sermons were not well-received in seventh-century Mecca, because they threatened the various tribal gods worshipped by the people, Muck explains. However, Muhammad's message was well received in the town of Medina, which was divided by a rivalry between its Jewish population and an indigenous population that worshipped tribal gods.
___"Muhammad's message proved to be a bridge between the two," Muck writes. "Muhammad saw himself as a legitimate prophet in the Jewish-Christian tradition, yet the name he gave to the God of Abraham and Jesus, Allah, was the name of an Arab tribal god."
___From a base of support in Medina, Muhammad eventually built a fiefdom that incorporated all of Western Arabia.
___Muslims believe they have five main duties to perform in their lifetime, call the Five Pillars of Islam. These are reciting the creed ("There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger."), praying fives times daily while facing Mecca; giving alms to the mosque at least once a year; fasting during daylight hours for the month of Ramadan; and making at least one pilgrimage to Mecca.
___Muslims also are mandated to tell others that Allah is the only god worthy of worship and that Muhammad is his prophet.
___Although Americans stereotype all Muslims as looking Arabic, the faith has taken root around the world. In fact, the majority of approximately 1 billion Muslims around the globe today are Asian. Arabs comprise only 20 percent of the Muslim population. The largest Muslim country in the world is Indonesia, but Muslims control other nations such as Afghanistan and Iran.
___Muslims worldwide can be divided into two distinct groups, explained James Chancellor, professor of missions at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky. These are Shiite (SHE-ite) and Sunni (SUE-nee).
___Shiites, which are most influential in Iraq, believe the head of the state should be in the lineage of the son-in-law of Muhammad. Sunnis believe the leader may be any Muslim elected by Muslims.
___Shiites interpret the Koran more in the mystic tradition than the Sunnis, according to Samuel Shahid, professor of missions at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth. Shahid said Shiites also have different traditional scriptures than the Sunnis and interpret Islamic law differently.
___Sunni Muslims are by far the largest segment of the faith, accounting for 95 percent of Muslims worldwide. Shiite Muslims are found primarily in Iran.
___Several aspects of the current conflict between the Western world and a radical sect of Muslims in the Arab world present ironic contrasts with the teachings of Muhammad.
___For example, observant Muslims eschew the use of any mood-altering drugs, including alcohol. Yet the terrorist network of Osama bin Laden and Afghanistan's Taliban government is widely reported to be bankrolled by the sale of drugs.
___Likewise, the Koran teaches that all humans are created by Allah and deserve respect--a notion not seen promoted within the extreme sects of Islam.
___Islam does teach modesty in dress for women, but the extreme measures of head-to-toe coverings imposed on women in some Muslim countries are "cultural expressions that have their roots in Persian culture," according to Muck.

planejin said...

You can find things that back up your extremist teachings and I can find things that contradict them. We shouldn't persecute a religious group, at the end of the day no religion has ever been backed by fact not the Christian or the Muslim. They are stories and theories handed down through time.

We are all human beings and there is good and bad in everyone and in every group and every society. You are targeting one group - blatantly racist, not founded on fact. You do not care about the HUMAN race. Millions of years ago when the earth began (according to science) we all lived on one land mass. How have we come to this - hating and targeting a group of us?? Greed, ignorance and religious stories.

Anonymous said...

Why do people always seem to argue that just because Christianity isn't tolerated in Saudi Arabia we shouldn't tolerate Islam.
Who honestly gives a shit what they tolerate in Saudi Arabia. This is the UK and I for one am proud of the fact that our principle of freedom of speech also encompasses freedom of religion. I'm white, I'm British, I'm an ex-squaddie and I for one feel more threatened by the bunch of thugs masquerading as a politicial party better known as the BNP than I ever will by women down Shelton and Normacot wearing headscarves and gowns. I am sick to the back teeth of a political party preaching that some of us are more British tha others just because of where their family originated. When I was in the army we had quite a few black and Asian lads and they're more British to me than any of these dole dossing wasters that don't want to work and moan when foreigners take the jobs they turned down.

brooneyes said...

Where in the Labour manifesto does it say that they intended to flood this country with an unending
wave of immigrants? Where in that manifesto does it say that the Labour party, with the full participation of the Tories, were
going to give away our sovereignty to a bunch of unelected crooks in the EU? It doesn't. That means that this almost successful deconstruction of Britain has been done without the people of this country being asked if that is what they wanted! That's why people don't like all this immigration, it was foisted on them
by a government that didn't even ask them! And why the hell should they? Why should the government be allowed to make these kind of fundamental changes to millions of
indigenous lives without first asking?!
My dad lied about his age in order to go to war and defend Britain from the threats of that house painting maniac, Hitler. He did not do this so that 60 years later, a gaggle of far left, commie lunatics, would open the backdoor and allow an invasion to take place! And it is a bloody invasion! Despite the inaccuracies
in Planejins hysterical rants, the
immigrant count for those entering this country now stands at just under 4000 a day!! Thats just under one and a half million immigrants a year! And you are so stupid you think this is acceptable?!
While we're on the subject of unfair, answer me this question.
Why is it only white countries have to be multicultural? It's fine and dandy for the Africans to
butcher the whites and steal their possessions, and nothing gets done about it, but if I say there are too many Africans being allowed into this country, and the only reason they are coming here is for the benefit system, lefty loonies like you are up in arms! Why is it that even though the vast majority of these murders of teenagers in London are done by blacks, the police aren't allowed to target blacks? Why is it women here in Stoke-on-Trent had to fight in the courts for the lifesaving drug Herceptin, when 3rd world, uneducated, disease ridden dross are allowed into our country from Africa, and the NHS has to provide them with AIDS treatment? Why is it that foreigners working in this country only pay income tax if they stay for a year or more? The
bloody Poles are working here for 9 months, going back to Poland with everything they've made, and don't have to pay tax on it! They then come back with a different ID and do it all again!! On top of which,
these bloody idiots in Westminster
pay the Poles family allowance for kids they have back in Poland!!
Funny how they can afford to do this, but here in this city the care homes have closed because our old folk have become too expensive to look after.Our culture, our history, our very identity are all in danger of being taken from us and lost forever, and yet stupid people like you continually overlook the rights of the indigenous population to a fair say in their own destiny.
Two final points. Yes, we would ban battery farming. Anonymous, if you really admire these foreigners so much, they have a continent of their own. Feel free to go and live there with them.

Gary Elsby said...

Craig Pond is much too silly to understand that we live in a Parliamentary Democracy.

Our MPs only ask of us every four or five years whether we want them to carry on or not. We are asked if they have generally performed to our liking and if so, vote for them. If not, sack them.

Craig Pond has been asked this very same question and has chosen to focus on immigration (not the NHS or schools or free bus travel or winter fuel allowance or family tax credits etc..)and disagrees with the Government of the day on this issue.
He chooses to ignore the fact that it was the Tories who introduced mass immigration and sold off our cheap energy and gave us cheap lending!
No, Craig doesn't go for immigration because .........

James said...

Hey Craig, where did Anonymous say they admired froeigners so much? My reading of that last anonymous comment was that they'd served with Black and Asian soldiers in the British Army and felt they were more British than "dole dossing wasters". Your response indicates that serving in our armed forces counts for nothing, so much for the patriotism of the BNP. And when did you serve may I ask?

planejin said...

Africa too hey - and I just thought it was the Muslims you have an issue with - obviously not - racist through and through - you're showing your cards and true colours now.

Not argued with the figures on birth rate though have you - no because they're entirely correct.

Not told me where you got the figure 40% want Sharia law - thought not - you made it up.

Where have you got your figure 4000 a day - from the fairies. Some may back your racist drival but I feel sure they'll never be the majority in the UK.

Most of my arguements in recent posts have been based on fact with sources to back it up - not you, and I'm ranting!

We're both allowed to so don't moan that I do when you do the same.

My for fathers faught against Hitler for freedom - what you want is exactly what Hitler wanted although against a different race - you can'y even deny it. I know those who died will be turning in their grave because people like you have learnt.

We are all part of the HUMAN RACE you have NO right or authority to decide who lives where and what they believe.

planejin said...

Just another point about 4000 a day. I have already illustrated that the population in 2007 only increased by 400000. So that's less than half a million and only 200000 of that increase was due to immigration.

Last year 406000 moved out of the UK.

Your figures are pie in the sky nonsense.

My figures are from national

Whilst you may counter my argument and say we don't even know how may slip through without being noticed - I doubt that is another 200000 ( 3 old traffords - come on)!

Anonymous said...

James, its a fact that when the Sentinel have little to say they make it up, and when there is news concerning anything to do with the B,N,P it is put in a negative way.
Recently the B,N,P put a Bio-fuel policy to the council, but was not reported in the Sentinel, wonder why?
As for Cameron, well he,s a clone of Blair, but more inexperienced,
anybody who believes he will be any better, are living in cloud cuckoo land.
He as no idea about the concerns of the ordinary working man, as like most MPs, have never done a days graft in their lives.
This country is full up but this clown cannot see it, if that is not a testament to his out of touch stupidity I don't know what is, when will people see his using the BNP (like the rest)is panic setting in.

Anonymous said...

Sorry I had to post in as anonymous, having trouble with my password, does anyone know how i retrieve it. terry turbo

nita said...

Well, I personally couldn't give a hoot what religion anyone follows, or what colour skin a person has. I make no apology for it either. That is my choice, just as it is fore some people to have a problem. It does make me chuckle though, as I know BNP voters who, have a foreign doctor, use the taxi's, enjoy a take away curry, attend the outpatients and are treated by foreign consultants, the list is endless. Amazing really. Would they have a problem, if in an emergency, a paramedic turned up, that was not born in Britain, but had done the training, and had moved legally into the country?? These are just some of my thoughts. There are areas that are wrong, of course, the people that are coming into the country, working, and then sending the money directly home, and none of it coming back into our system. Totally wrong and unacceptable. I agree on the Halal meat, the way in which the animal is killed is cruel. However, planejin makes a good point, when he refers to, lets say the chickens, living in horrendous conditions, just so we can get two for a fiver in the local supermarket. Good point. At least this site has opened up some interesting debate, and a wide range of opinions.

Tony said...

Craig, it seems your comment and views are attracting some interest.
Let me explain what i mean by abhorrent policies. I can and never will accept the view that an Asian person who was born in this country would not be welcome and would be offered voluntary repatriation to the country of their parents origin. It ain't right! We need to work with the people of all ethnic backgrounds who were born in this country and promote racial harmony. That said these people have to want to integrate fully in an multi cultural city. In my opinion the Asian community of Normacott don't seem as open to integration as they are in say Shelton or Brownhills. The countries electorate expect the government to tackle the level of immigration in our country. It isn't just the BNP that can solve this issue. The BNP keep harping on about an open door policy that has been created over the last 20 or so years. Truth is that over the last few years the government have introduced a system where by immigrants are assessed by a points system and they have to prove that they can contribute to society or simply they do not get in. Gary Elsby who is very pro Labour would defend his parties stance on asylum seekers and illegal immigrants, i say these policies don't go far enough but i would not want this country to turn away the real cases of persecuted people who would be harmed or even killed if they remained in their own country. Other countries have a responsibility too and there should be an agreement reached through the EU where each country agrees to accept their share of genuine cases. If this happened and we faced up and tackled this most sensitive issue then there would be no need for the electorate to turn to the far right. We just need the mainstream parties to have the balls to make a stand!
My rule of life No1 is that i wish to live in a multi cultural society with people of all creeds and colour in harmony who want to live with me and wish me and my family no harm, as i wish nobody any harm. Religion should never come into the debate on immigration as we in this country have had our fair share of restrictive religion, such as Methodist of years gone by and even now religions like the "Plymouth brethren" still exist. Indeed we are a nation with many different faiths which enhance our society yet the BNP portray the Muslim faith as something pure evil. In a conversation with a BNP supporter from a northern town a couple of years ago he said to me something like "I'm not saying all Muslims are terrorists, but how is it that all terrorists happen to be Muslim" The BNP need to go a lot further to convince me that their politics are based on more than the colour of one skin. Craig tell me if I'm wrong but up until the BNP had the success in Stoke their party membership was in decline and this is why Mr Griffin and Mr Darby call this town the BNP's Jewel in the crown. I have said that the BNP councilors i have had dealings with are, articulate, enthusiastic and hard working, they tackle the issues in their wards, they are nice guys.
In my opinion the reason that your party prosper is because our people have "no protest vote" If you are disillusioned with Labour you would normally vote LibDem, if you are disillusioned with the Tories you would normally vote LibDem. There is not a strong Libdem presence in this city indeed we have not had a LibDem candidate in years. The independents and the BNP have become the protest vote for people who are pissed of with Labour and the Tories. So we are where we are and if the mainstream parties don't get it together in this city i have no doubt that the BNP will get stronger, do i want this? no i don't! To use another of my football analogies, just because a substitute came on for the last 10 minutes and did OK, doesn't mean he should start the next game. This is how i feel about the BNP they have not done anywhere near enough to convince me that the are not racist and that is the biggest single thing they have to overcome. Not just for me because I'm no one, but for the majority of people in our city. I just happen to believe that people in this city would not turn to the BNP if there was a credible alternative to the BNP in our city. If the BNP achieve more success then the mainstream parties need to hang their heads in shame! Keep the comments coming Craig it helps us understand what you and your party stand for maybe we will see T Cope too soon, Only Gary Elsby is posting from a Labour perspective, it's a shame that Joy Garner or Roger Ibbs or any elected or party activist gives alternative views. I so want pitsnpots to be the debating chamber for the people of this city but as we all know it takes more than one view to be a real debate!

Anonymous said...

You can retrieve your own password by clicking on your own name and enter blogger.

Anonymous said...

Craig Pond seems to have gone awfully quiet on this one. Is it because he was asked about his own military service after it was pointed out that his party wanted remove people from this country who have actually defended it? Like Johnson Beharry VC? I wonder where he stands on the Gurkhas?

brooneyes said...

Bloody hell, I'm only gone a couple of days and the inmates from
a mental institution are ganging up on me!
Tony, I'll shoot your argument down right away. You want to live in a multi culti hellhole, that's your democratic choice, as is mine not wanting to live in one. This has to be put before the people in a referendum. Over 80% of the people asked said that immigration was their number one worry, so don't bank on getting your way!
Let me sort out this nutty Planejin! I do not make up any of the numbers and percentages I use,
you should stop measuring people with your own p*ss poor standards! That's where the 40% comes from. Also check out
Oh no, Elsby's found this site!
Never in the history of humankind has anyone been so capable of talking through the wrong tube!I've read your post several times now, and still don't know what the hell you are talking about. I was at the Civic Centre today, even your Labour colleagues were slagging you off as a loon!
Anonymous, not that it's any of your damn business, but I joined the Royal Marines after I left school. As for the Gurkhas, the BNP have campaigned to have them allowed in! Their service to this country would be recognised more by the BNP than any other party! So would the crappy treatment of our own troops!
Where some of you people get these stupid and offensive ideas from, I dread to think, but I will not sit back and take your rubbish!
The BNP has a large following amongst serving, and ex-servicemen and women, and nasty comments blacken their names too!
One more thing before I go. My daughter has asian friends at Brownhills, and while out shopping in Tunstall one Saturday, we ran in to a lad she knew who was out with his parents. That boy cut her dead, explaining to her later, that his mother and father had fobidden him to talk to whites, and if he had done so, his father would have beaten him! This is the real face of your multicultural society. Remember, extreme islam is an insane death cult, moderate
islam is the trojan horse that brings it to your door.

Nigel said...

Craig, I find the story of your experience about the Asian lads parents hard to believe and accuse you of complete fabrication. I may now live in Hartshill but grew up in Shelton and my mother still lives there. Her Muslim neighbours are some of the nicest people I have ever had the pleasure to know. They can't do enough to help her out weather it be shopping to lifts up Hanley.

I remember you writing a letter to the sentinel a few years ago claiming that whites will bve a minority in Britain in 20 years. Yet another trademark "Pond" fabrication!

brooneyes said...

You constantly move the goalposts Nigel, yet you accuse me of being a dirty player! I will tell you the truth, even if that ends up hurting me, because people cannot make informed judgements without the facts!
I don't mind lefty scum like you calling me names, but casting doubt on my daughters honesty will get you something you won't want, and I won't want to give you!
People can go too far, and you just did. Think before you type your bile.

Tony said...

Craig by the very nature of you admitance that the gurkhas should be allowed to settle here having served our country, can i take it that this will be offered in the Indian people who served along side us in the second world war which included soldiers from the Kashmir area today known as Pakistan?
On banning certain religious dress do i take it that this inludes a nun's habit or the priestly robes?

Nigel said...

OK I will take you and your daughters word for it, I will apologise and give you the benefit of the doubt. There certainly are Asian people who have racist attitudes to white people but of coarse there are many white people who are racist towards anyone who is not white- you know, the type who consider them to all be criminals or having AIDS, that type of thing.

I also see the usual lefty insult is being through about again. Whats next- Marxist, Trotskyist.

Did I also detect some sort of threat in your post. Such a big internet hard man!

brooneyes said...

What you detect Nigel is if you want to pick a fight, pick it with me and not my children.
Tony. Any of the foreigners that
fight for this country deserve to be cared for by this country. Colour or creed doesn't matter, as with most things in life, it's actions that speak of character.

brooneyes said...

Tony, the nuns habit and the priests robe of course will not be banned, they are a part of the religion of these islands and are inbuilt into our heritage and culture. Islam isn't. If you get the chance, take a look at the London Evening Standard piece about John "3 houses" Cruddas, 2nd
rate Labour politician and terrified that the BNP will take away his seat at the next general election. It's a real eye opener.

planejin said...

Yes but again, the websites are of poor quality, - don't make me laugh. The 40% was of a pole of only 600! It doesn't speak for the views of the Muslim population as a whole.

This is my point - I am happy to accept decent arguments built on fact. Yours are not backed up with good statistics and as a result they can be attacked or down graded because of their poor quality.

I acknowledge that illegal immigration has to be tackled and immigration itself should be properly managed.

I do not agree that the Muslim religion is full of hate and everyone who is Muslim has a conspiracy against the UK. It's pure fiction. That those from Africa all beat whites and have Aids - I mean - how ridiculous - how silly.

You have rules for one ad rules for another - it's not fair. From what you've said anyway - I don't think you'll feasibly be able to send many packing legitimately under your rules...because there are some many great migrants making excellent contributions to the UK economy.

Infact recently it's been the white fat cats that have fu%%ed things up well and truely. Greed!!

The more you talk - the more daft your arguements become and the more people are able to dismiss them.

brooneyes said...

Do you know what you are?
You are the female version of Gary Elsby!
Everything said and done you find a ridiculous way of twisting round to suit your own arguments. Only 600. But if they had polled a 1000,
it would be, it's only a 1000!
Debate, honest debate, cannot start if you insist on comint to the table with your blinkers on.

brooneyes said...

Do you know what you are?
You are the female version of Gary Elsby!
Everything said and done you find a ridiculous way of twisting round to suit your own arguments. Only 600. But if they had polled a 1000,
it would be, it's only a 1000!
Debate, honest debate, cannot start if you insist on coming to the table with your blinkers on.

Gary Elsby said...

Craig, you appear to have a crush on me.
I'll send you a photograph so that you can nail it to your bedroom ceiling so that you can perform the necessary act!

planejin said...

Now if I was blinkered I wouldn't openly acknowledge we've a problem with migration. I just think there are better ways of dealing with it than your ways of targeting particular groups. I just don't understand how you can tar everyone of one faith with the same brush. I don't know why you think it's your groups right or anyones right whether elected or not to decide who lives where. I say again, we are all part of the same race - the human race.

planejin said...

Oh - and therefore you don't twist things to suit yours - ha ha!

Mark said...

When it comes to immigration, why can't this useless government simply apply the rule of law. If you are here illegally then off you go, simple. And if they haven't got any I.D on them then they go back to the last country they came from.
When you get something for nothing then you can't blame all these poor, blameless people for wanting to come here.
The only problem though is that we already have our own 'scroungers' who get whatever they want for contributing absolutely nowt to society, except babies.
This is where change is needed then the governments call that immigrants are doing jobs that British people don't want, won't hold.

Tony said...

So Mark,
What would you like to see happen so that immigration is not needed to fill these jobs? Who would you like to see in government?

T COPE said...

Tony, if the benefits system was overalled, like Labour promished, we would not be in this mess.
I don't even blame the people claiming them, the fault lies in the Governments eagerness to pay them.
Most of those on benefits claim more than they could get working.
Where once their was pride in working, it has been replaced by money for nothing.
We should give claiments one chance of work, then if they refuse to work, they get their benefits stopped.
The biggest problem is when you start work you get hit with all the bills, (poll tax, rent,water ect ect)so a free period should be offered to allow them to adjust.
Anyone who knows the system, does not go on the dole, but goe's on the sick, as the pay is more.
This is used by the majority of unemployed people.
The fact is we don't need immigration at its present rate, but a Government with the guts to tackle the problem.

Martin said...

We don't actually need all these foreign workers. If the authorities vigilantly enforced existing employment legislation in respecto to things like under the counter payments, minimum wage, H&S etc... then there'd be no room to employ the illegals. Likewise we wouldn't need the legal/EU ones if the authorities made it difficult for people to claim benefits, particularly the longer they've been out of work.
Unfortunately there are too many unscrupulous employers trying to cut corners to save costs therefore employing illegals because they won't complain. There are also too many job shy who will stay on benefits refusing work, and not because being on benefits is better financially. Some of the jobs being turned down are reasonably well paid, it's just they're a little physical. Worst of all, it's those in the latter category who seem to cry the loudest about "damn foreigners coming here and taking our jobs". They wouldn't be able to if these lazy bastards took them themselves. However, I do find most people disagree with the BNP on the subject of people born and bred here. And arguments like cats and kennels just fuel the idea that they're a bunch of morons.


John Tyndall - the Nazi who founded the National Front and then the British National Party. After 1979 the NF split in two, and the BNP was formed from the faction led by John Tyndall. The BNP was taken over by another ex-NF leader, the current BNP chairman Nick Griffin.

Today the BNP claim their Nazi past is over, and that the BNP are in favour of democracy and against racism. However in Nick Griffin admits that the moderate language now used by the BNP is just a trick to help sell BNP ideas to gullible voters, while the actions of people like the BNP deputy leader Scott McLean also prove the central core of BNP activists are still definitely Nazis!


The BNP Hereford Branch was recently founded by a convicted Nazi terrorist and (thankfully failed) child murderer called Lambertus Nieuwhof. Lambertus Nieuwhof was a member of a paramilitary terror group called the AWB or Afrikaner Resistance Movement, led by a notorious South African racist (and Adolf Hitler impersonator) called Eugene Terre'Blanche (who is referred to as "The Leader" in this video). Lambertus Nieuwhof participated in a terror campaign, which the AWB waged against the introduction of democracy in South Africa.

Lambertus Nieuwhof (who is known as "Bep" in BNP circles) planted a 25kg bomb in a mixed-race Calvary church SCHOOL in Nelspruit, South Africa. One of the the gang grassed his "comrades", the Nazis were arrested and convicted, but, like many other AWB thugs, received light sentences from a judiciary still riddled with vicious racists and Apartheid supporters. Using money donated by BNP supporters, the BNP also employ this terrorist (and his company Vidronic Online) to run several BNP websites.

Because the BNP is desperate to distance itself from the actions of BNP terrorists like David Copeland, Tony Lecomber, John Laidlaw and Robert Cottage, some BNP supporters claim that Lambertus Nieuwhof didn't really want to MURDER children, suggesting his bomb was planted one evening when the school was empty - this excuse is about as pathetic as pretending that the IRA didn't really want to kill Maraget Thatcher because the Grand Hotel bomb was planted weeks before it was timed to detonate!

Another prominent BNP activist is Nieuwhof's friend Arthur Kemp. Arthur Kemp is a former member of South Africa's Apartheid-era secret services, who were infamous for their brutal enforcement of evil race-hate laws. Arthur Kemp was arrested for instigating the MURDER of ANC activist Chris Hani, but - BNP activists be warned - Arthur Kemp escaped jail by informing on his white "comrades"! As you can tell from searching You Tube, Arthur Kemp regularly speaks at BNP rallies, including the BNP "Red White and Blue" Festival.

The BNP claim they are no longer Nazi, but right now Arthur Kemp is heavily involved with an American Nazi group called the National Alliance, and with a German Nazi group called the NDP. Kemp recently addressed a Nazi rally in Germany and contributed to a Nazi magazine published by a former SS officer. The BNP denied any responsibility for inspiring the murders carried out by David Copeland, but the BNP sold a terror manual called "The Turner Diaries" which David Copeland admitted inspired his nail-bombs; Arthur Kemp wrote a book called "The Story of the AWB", which celebrates AWB terrorism, and which is sold by the BNP Excalibur Book Service!

The 777 style Swastika flag used by Lambertus Nieuwhof's AWB is the same flag used by the recently convicted Nazi paedophile Martyn Gilleard...

If that all wasn't disgusting enough, the fact that the BNP are still racist is also PROVEN by the BNP actively welcoming white African immigrants into the UK, while pretending to oppose immigration. The truth is that in practice the BNP only oppose immigration if it's by black Africans, therefore the BNP is by definition racist. The BNP also pretend to oppose asylum seekers, while helping foreign CRIMINALS to find what is effectively asylum in the UK from the dangers they created for themselves in their own countries. If there really are BNP supporters who are genuinely not Nazi or racist, these people should leave the BNP immediately!


This is about the London nail-bomber, BNP member and mass murderer David Copeland. There is no question that David Copeland was a full member of the BNP, that he worked as an accredited BNP steward for main BNP meetings, and as a bodyguard for BNP founder John Tyndall (film of Copeland "protecting" Tyndall appears in a video). BNP supporters claim Copeland was no longer a member of the BNP when he exploded his bombs, BUT...

1. The BNP keep details of BNP membership strictly secret, so there is no evidence whether David Copeland was still in the BNP when he exploded his bombs or not. BNP supporters CLAIM that Copeland had left the BNP, but firstly there is NO EVIDENCE to support that claim, and secondly the current BNP leader Nick Griffin also claims (as seen on TV) that the Nazi gas chambers never existed, so statements made by the BNP can NEVER be trusted!

2. Even if it was true that David Copeland left the BNP after he realised the BNP never deliver their promises, the BNP had nurtured Copeland's beliefs and then denied responsibility when he acted on them. Few Nationalist leaders have the courage to take responsibility for crimes they encourage, so it is important for those leaders to hide, to destroy, and to avoid leaving hard evidence of their ordering atrocities. To trick rank-and-file supporters into taking the rap for crimes WITHOUT the leaders having to go to jail, Nazi leaders even promote an ideology of "Leaderless Resistance" (and it's a measure of how stupid the cannon-fodder can be that some supporters are even gullible enough fall for this trick). "Leaderless Resistance" was promoted to BNP members through sales of a terror manual called "The Turner Diaries" - a book which has inspired Nazi terrorists to murder hundreds of people, and which David Copeland admitted also inspired his killings.

3. After the London bombings, the BNP leader Nick Griffin expressed no sympathy for Copeland's victims, preferring instead to use that opportunity to condemn gay people who drank in the pub where Copeland killed (among others) a straight white woman and her unborn baby. With incredible and callous hypocrisy, Nick Griffin now claims that the BNP is not anti-gay!

4. BNP leader Nick Griffin REFUSED to help the police when 3 times failed BNP councillor Robert Cottage was recently jailed for making nail-bombs, and (though he was expelled years later for a different reason) former BNP official Tony Lecomber (who was at that time Nick Griffin's right hand man) was NOT thrown out of the BNP even AFTER he was jailed for another attempted nail-bombing. The BNP knew South African immigrant Lambertus Nieuhof is a convicted terrorist and wannabe child-killer when they allowed him to form the BNP Hereford branch, but, right now, they STILL refuse to throw him out even after his criminal record has been revealed.

5. David Copeland stated his aim was to use anti-black and anti-Asian terrorism "to cause a racial war in this country", in order to encourage minorities to attack whites, in the hope that white people would then "go out and vote BNP" ...

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