Sunday, 26 October 2008


As many of you will know, Terry Cope and Craig Pond both live at the North end of the city, whilst most of Pitsnpots bloggers live in the South.

We at Pitsnpots are keen to ensure we cover stories from all areas of the city, and, to this end, Terry and Craig have provided further information on a local news story which we were all aware of, but didn't quite know the full details. Terry Cope writes to Pitsnpots as follows:

"Why is it that the stench of hypocrisy hangs over the Churchill China factory in Sandyford? Mr Roper - he who complains of the noise coming from Alton Towers two miles from his home in Alton- builds a giant warehouse surrounding the residents of Birchall Avenue, not more than 100 yards away from the rear of their houses. Add to this the future constant comings and goings of 40 ton Heavy Goods Vehicles, the noise of forklifts loading and unloading, an internal tannoy system and radios, and you start to get the picture of what the residents of Birchall Avenue will have to put up with, not to mention the Health and Safety risks of carcinogenic diesel fumes wafting their way into the homes of residents, and their children’s lungs.

When this monstrosity is finally built, sunlight to their homes will be cut drastically, as it towers above all the houses on both sides. The risk of subsidence created by the HGV's has not been calculated into the risk to the adjoining properties. They have also seen their properties' value decrease substantially because of this problem.

Churchill’s have recently laid off personnel, but this monstrosity is still going ahead despite all the objections to it, with this City Council's blessing. Local Councillor Lee Wanger, it is alleged by some of the residents, is informing people that those residents of Birchall Avenue have been financially compensated, which they vehemently deny. There are disputes over the validity of planning permission, public footpaths, and the road subsidence in Holywall Lane , that was reported to the highways department by a local resident who is known to me. One other local resident, also known to me, has been fighting this case for thirty years but is constantly blocked by the City Council and Churchill China ’s insistence on getting their way come hell or high water.

This will not only affect the residents of Birchall Avenue , but those of Reginald Way due to the increase of traffic and noise. There is a proposal for a large Central Fire Station to be built adjoining the Churchill monstrosity, causing further traffic and noise.
Now don’t get me wrong I want more businesses to expand, but they must work with the local community, not bully them, as this case proves. The residents of Bichall Avenue feel as if they have been imprisoned by the surrounding buildings, and once where there was an open countryside view, there is only blue steel walls to look at. I and my party will fight to support the residents of the affected area, as we believe this is wrong. I will update you has to how I get on."

Craig has also provided photos, which are shown at the top of this blog post.

It certainly seems like a monstrosity, along similar lines to the Screwfix building in Trentham/Blurton.

Are you a local resident blighted by the Churchill China building? Tell us what you think - how has it affected your daily life and how will it affect you in the future? Are you happy with the way the council have dealt with this issue? Terry says the BNP are fighting this on behalf of the residents - are there other local councillors from other parties supporting this cause? Or do you think the Council were right to allow Churchill China to carry out this expansion project?

What do you think? Over to you...


brooneyes said...

Thanks for showing this. I'm told
that the Owners of Churchill China
are the same Roper family bellyaching about the noise from Alton Towers!! What a bloody cheek!
This massive construction should be taken down, and whoever granted planning permission should be prosecuted for gross incompetence!
In the first picture, this huge warehouse isn't 50 feet from the back of that building, and the steel construction directly behind
the bungalow is the loading bay!
Never in a million years should this eyesore have been granted permission, although we believe that permission was issued by a single officer!! The decision wasn't made by a committee, but by the planning officer. It's all countryside around there, and to put this on greenspace is bad enough, but it is positioned right at the top of the hill! You will be able to see this bloody thing from miles away!
Nevermind, the fight is on. The BNP have been called in because the three councillors in the Tunstall ward are doing nothing, apart from Wanger who is helping Churchills! But as he used to work for them, perhaps that should come as no surprise. Meg Ryan is a colleague of Wangers and won't go against the male that ran her
campaign for councillor. As I've said before, Cllr Matloob could teach the invisible man things about not being seen!
Talking to some of the locals today, it was mentioned that Meredith and Feehily(planning office) had been out to see it and reassured the residents with the words, "it's legal." Maybe in your world it is, but never in the real one!
Me or Terry will update you on the progress of this, and I believe that there is a similar case in Meir?? Thanks again.

Anonymous said...

I think BNP hate Wanger because he is a paedophile, Ryan because she goes along with Wangers paedophilia and Matloob because he is a Pakistani.

brooneyes said...

You're close anonymous. Matloob we dislike cos he's bloody useless!

brooneyes said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
T COPE. said...

Thank you pitsnpots for highlighting this case, and I concur with everything Brooneyes states.

Anonymous said...

Thats strange the bnp fighting this...when these people have made no representation to the city council planing department....The only person who has is the local MP....good work of her fighting for people unlike the BNP who only want pres headlines out of it.

Sir Findo Gask said...

I don't doubt that this may have been forced through but did the local residents do everything they could from the off?

How many residents opposed the planning permission?
Did they take it to appeal?

I have not been down that end of the city for a while so I have not seen this in all it's glory but it looks pretty big and poorly planned.

T COPE said...

Anonymous, only an MP has made representation to the City Council?
Get your facts right.
I have seen written proof of the representaions made, even to the omsbudsman to help the residents.
Ive heard the lies they have been fed, all to defeat them.
The local councillor involved has been more of an hinderance in their fight.
Take a long hard look at these buildings.
How would you like to live for the rest of your life in their shadow.

warren said...

Something this big is not just a concern for the locals, its a concern for the city. Building like this big bastard impact more far reaching then the local area. Take Scuewfix, that big old thing dominates the veiws of much of the south of the city, from Trentham to Meir. Again it dont seem like the residents of this city have been thought of at all. This thing will only give work to 20 or so, is it worth it. As for the Roper's, they have robbed the workers of this city for years, and its about time that them who worked for them, and indeed lost there jobs becouse of there missmanagmen, told them how they feel. I've had dealing with the Ropers before, never worked for them, loved ones have, and been treated like shit. Lets just say say that if theres a pertition going round about this, bring it down to the south of the city to, lots of ex Churchills workers round hear would only be to glad to put there name on it.

No such thing as society said...

Clearly the BNP are just after cheap publicity just like the 'campaigns' of the likes of Kent-Baggaley and Ted Owen.

And if there was widespread opposition to the development then letters of objection, petitions etc. would have been considered by the planning committee on which BNP councillors sit.

I doubt the council would have risked giving permission to an illegal development because of the potential legal and financial consequences.

My guess is that the BNP are telling local residents whatever they want to hear regardless of whether it is legal, possible or truthful.

Anonymous said...

Probably all a load of NIMBYs or BANANAS!!!

Ian Norris said...

Brooneyes: this decision went to the Planning committee and it was voted through by Councillors, 5 locals residents sent in objection letters.

Ian Norris said...

Anon : no letter was submitted to planning committe by Joan Walley. she is working for the open space in the area to be maintained

Sir Findo Gask said...

How many residents are now complaining, seeing as only 5 complained at the planning stage?

I don't doubt that this structure is spoiling their enjoyment of their residential and local space but it is a bit late to complain after it has been to planning and construction has started....

Without going off topic, IMHO, this is exactly the same as the referendum, people just can't be bothered until it is too late.

nosun city said...

Good on ya t. cope and brooneyes first time anyone one has taken notice of us at all.We have been fighting Stoke on Trent city council and Churchills for years and one resident in particular has compiled a huge file containing documents,plans,letters etc from way back, when it all began.We are but a coffee stain upon a map "drip a drop" and we are gone. Where else in this "green and pleasant land" do we find a residential area surrounded by warehousing. Come on all you residence of Spitfire Way join with us and let's continue the fight to get rid of "The church on the hill" Ta Warren for your support. All who want to visit this monster look to the sky, follow the planes as they approach Manchester airport. Beware dont come in too low you may find yourself a fixture on the mother of all warehousing

Frank Fuller said...

Only 5 letters of objection when there must be at least several hundred people living in the adjoining streets!

I'm sorry but if people can't be bothered to make their views known at the right time then they really can't complain afterwards.

By the sounds of it the development may not be that big an issue and all the noise is being made by a small but vocal minority who need to be careful that they are not used by the BNP for their political point scoring. And I think I'm qualified to comment as I too live in the Tunstall area.

Gary Elsby said...

This is an eyesore and I think most people agree.
This planning application would never have got through the old committee system but how interesting that once again, the bnp are making this a party political issue.

Terry agrees with everything Craig says and writes.Duh.

Let me think, if the BNP actually ran Stoke on Trent, such monstrosities would never get off the ground. Duh.

No doubt, come election time, churchills will make good news for the BNP Duh.

Saying that, couldn't the BNP do with a leg up during the leader and cabinet pantomime?

Over to you, Mr. Sentinel.

Ian Norris said...

Frank: I think the development is a very BIG issue, but its is too late now to complain.

Many residents where unaware of just the impact it would have on the whole area, where as the much larger blue planet development is hidden and harderly noticable, Churchills stands out like a sore thumb.

Ian Norris said...

Gary Elsby: it did go through the committee system, cant blame this on the mayor, Councillors voted to approve this decison 26th March

Frank Fuller said...

And BNP councillors were on the planning committee.

Why didn't they object then?

BNP are just mischief making and using naieve local residents to score points.

nicky said...

I think the photos for this one really hammer the point home. How close that is to the houses!

Terry, you've got it exactly -"the future constant comings and goings of 40 ton Heavy Goods Vehicles, the noise of forklifts loading and unloading, an internal tannoy system and radios". We have all those things from the (ironically named) Screwfix warehouse on Trentham Lakes (plus there is a low hum, likely from there but maybe from elsewhere on Trentham Lakes). But with Screwfix it was built on the brownfield site of the old colliery, and it does have to be expected that building will occur on brownfield sites, so objections can only really be in the details. But if this is greenfield you have to question the criteria for building on such land. But the other thing that is way worse in this case is the proximity to the houses.

Craig, that phrase you mentioned fom Meredith "it's legal", just about sums him. Reading beyond the lines 'I can do it so I will do it, and to hell with what anyone from the community thinks'. And I still don't think he realises why he wasn't popular.

Regarding the pitifully small number of objections, of course I can not comment as I would not know, but has anyone looked into whether there was a legal 'statutory' timescale, such that objections before a certain date might not have been included? (Because well 'you can't object before the decision is made can you'.) Were any of the objections discussing other things as well such that they might be filed under another topic? Might be worth doing a bit of a survey of residents to see who says they sent in objections, then check that the numbers match.

T COPE said...

I do not court publicity,anyway when was the last time you saw positive publicity for the BNP in the Sentinel.
Frank Fuller, what am I supposed to do, stay away and do nothing, because I am in the BNP?
I have freinds living in this area, and do not use my freinds for political gain, or anything else for that matter.
Thanks Warren for your input, you at least know whats what.
There were five original objectors, but people did not realise what a monstrosity it was going to be, or how it would affect their lives, and since when did the number of objectors matter, if their cause was right?
Labour, and Conservative Councillors did not give a damm, so are we just supposed to leave them?
Sir Findo Gask, take the time out to look at this monstrosity, and then you will see why the residents are objecting.
I have worked for Churchill, and I know what they treat their workers like, just ask the ones who have been laid off recently, so that more profit is made to create structures like this.
Mr Elsby, yes I do agree with Craig on this matter, and for the record if I was in a position to decide on decisions of this nature, I would consult fully with the people it would affect, and take into account their objections.
Only then would I allow it to go ahead, when all parties agreed, thats the democratic way Duh.
There is plenty of brown field sites in this area that could have been used,its only going to be a warehouse, and offices, but this is Churchill showing the locals, and the City Council who's in charge.

Frank Fuller said...

Nicky - I know you are a Doctor of something but you would be politically naieve in the extreme if you think that the BNP are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts and are like any other party trying to do their best for the people of the city. They are as far as you can imagine from an ordinary political party as I'm sure Tony will confirm for you.

Mr. Cope, as BNP councillors sit on the committee which made the decision on the planning application can you tell us if they made any objections to it?

brooneyes said...

To all the tossers who are implying that the BNP are involved with this for the publicity, when did we ever get good publicity??
Ian Norris, so far I've tracked planning applications for this back to 1999, with a mix of committee and delegated decisions.
Frank, stop judging us by your own p*sspoor standards, and the same goes for you, No such thing as society.
The people who live there asked us to get involved and we will, whether you whiney lefties like it or not.
Nicky, pretty much a voice of reason, apart from when you start with this Peter Kent-Bagguley cobblers.
Nosun city, we know that man! We've sent someone round to talk to Bill, and examine that large file of documents too! We'll be seeing you tomorrow as we will be back up there.

T. Cope said...

Craig, you were so good last night, it really hit the spot. Now my bum grapes are sorted.

Anonymous said...

Craig throws his toys out of the pram!!!

Sir Findo Gask said...

T Cope

...Sir Findo Gask, take the time out to look at this monstrosity, and then you will see why the residents are objecting.

I have never disputed why they are objecting, it is painfully obvious as to why. What I am getting at is, 5 people complained at the planning stage but due to any number of unknown factors, (but I would imagine lack of objections from local residents would be one), this development got the go ahead. If the number of people now complaining about it made their views clear at the correct time, the planning stage, it may be a different story. It is very difficult to get a development stopped once work has begun / been completed unless it is outside of the passed plans...

I feel for the residents as I would not want this in my back yard but they had their time to object when the plans were being drawn up. I would also say that a number of them will have been written too by the planning office due to their close proximity to the development. Rather than sitting complaining to the paper they need to galvanise in to action and find anything they can to prove that this build is illegal or outside of the passed plans and challenge it. Speaking the the Sentinel, who will put their own slant on it, will not make one bit of difference..

Sorry :(

T COPE said...

Sir Findo Gask, we are digging, and will find the info on this debacle.
t cope says, if you have not got the guts to sign your own name to the filth you sent in, it speaks volumes of your character.

Gary Elsby said...

Terry Cope makes the absurd point that he would only agree to planning permission, 'if all parties agree'.

No. That is not the role of a Councillor.

A Councillor makes a decision in this world full of argument.

That is why they seek power and that is why the BNP is a flawed political party, hell bent on whipping up feeling and pretending to be the all round good guy on the side of the poor downtrodden.

The veer from this idiocy by their stance on immigration and black people.

Think about it.

Independent supporter said...

Lee and Megan must be laughing their heads off at you over this, they know you will get nowhere. They are both a million times better councillors than Cope could be.

Gary Elsby said...

During one of my elections, the BNP had a day off the annual Mosque rant and came at me very hard.

They went into the press calling Labour anti Christs because we (me) were refusing to allow local churchgoers permission to move from their current church which was 'falling down upon them', and into a vacant derilict building.

'The BNP speaks for the church' (sort of stuff). This appeared to put a dent into my campaign.

When I contacted the church, they were horrified to know that Nazi's were reported to be helping them.

The truth was that the BNP never even contacted them. A stunt which renders all things BNP, open to question before a judgement is made.

Take my word for it, when Alby's name is dropped into the hat, he will deliver us a showstopper of reasonability in a Lab/Con/Lib world of underhand deceit.

Fascists have been doing this for a Century but they can't do it without an innocent victim, whereas other parties need no victims.

T COPE said...

It had to come out did'nt it Racism, what the hell is this to do with racism Elsby you idiot.
A councillor makes the decision in this world full of problems?
Sorry I thought a councillor served the people, not themselves, but hey in your world that is obviously not the case.
Independant Supporter, you state Lee Wanger and Meg Ryan must be laughing their heads off, well if they are let them go right ahead.
I don't give a damm.
Lee Wanger's background is flawed to say the least.
Don't take my word for it, ask the Sentinel, the Tunstall War Memorial Committee, and the residents of Birchall Avenue.
If I have not got my good name, I have Nothing, ring any bells?

brooneyes said...

Elsby and Independent supporter.
You two are a couple of sad acts!
You criticise us no matter what we do, and at the same time defend the councillors of the affected area, one of whom has been actively supporting the construction of this bloody giant warehouse! What kind of retarded mind thinks that is acceptable behaviour from our political representatives?
What kind of retarded mind would even consider it to be all right for that child sex offender to represent the electorate? He should have been kicked out of office for bringing the council into disrepute!
And as for Elsby, it's the same old crap he always comes out with.
A sad little man with a spiteful dislike of the BNP because he was beaten THREE times by them in local elections! How many times does Alby Walker have to thrash you before the message that you are not wanted sinks in?

Independent supporter said...

So far as I am concerned Lee is a good councillor and works hard for Tunstall and I believe he was set up by someone who is out to get him.

When Lee stood for election no one said anything against him and he won with a good vote.

If you have proof about Lee doing anything wrong you should put it in writing to the people of Tunstall at the next elections and they will decide who to believe.

brooneyes said...

Lee Wanger admitted to the police he was "curious" about child porn, and that was in the Sentinel on
Friday 14th January, 2005!
The Independents group kicked him out, so should have the council!
No-one set him up, he's just a mucky b*****d, and you are obviously a stupid one for not even bothering to find out the facts!
The piece in the Sentinel can be found on page 2 and is titled,
"If I don't have my good name, then
I have nothing."
You must have nothing then, but don't worry, I've got some good names for you!

Sir Findo Gask said...

t cope says, if you have not got the guts to sign your own name to the filth you sent in, it speaks volumes of your character.

Please elaborate and substantiate or apologise as I have never posted anything classed as 'filth' on this blog..

Independent supporter said...

As I said BNP you should put your evidence that Lee Wanger has done wrong in writing to the people of Tunstall at the next elections and they will decide, otherwise you should stop your mud slinging at a hard working councillor.

Lee has done a lot of good work in the Tunstall area and deserves to be elected back on to the council.

st george said...

A few easily checked facts -
1. Only 5 residents wrote in to complain.
2. None were bothered to go to the public committee to challenge it.
3. The committee is made up of all parties - inc the BNP.
4. BNP Councillors on the committee are, Cllr Melanie Baddeley, and Cllr Phillip Sandland.

A few more facts -
1. The clincher for the courts finding Cllr Lee Wanger guilty of having viewed child porn, was the use of his credit card, which had not been lost or stolen, details picked up under operation Ore.
2. He is still allowed to be a councillor as the judge did not give an actual or suspended sentence of at least 3 months, and when the Standards board were told, they said they could not deal with it, as it had occured before they existed.
3. To get re-elected, he made a point of being in the Sentinel 2 weeks before his last election, claiming he was set up and was appealling his case. He did no such thing, as his case had been over for some time.
4. He still has to sign the sex offenders register, and has resrictions on him. He has to do this till at least 2009.
5. He also used the Muslim community in Tunstall by putting out a leaflet in Urdu, which was filled with miss information and fibs. He has done this again, for his friend, and it has worked again.

The people of Tunstall voted him back in. They get what they vote for.

Anonymous said...

I can't believe that Wanger is still on the council it should not be allowed.

BNP I hope you do a big campaign exposing him as a dirty paedophile as a lot of people in Tunstall might still not know how bad he is and could vote for him again.

brooneyes said...

Independent supporter.
He deserves to be voted back in!!! What kind of an attitude is that?! The mans a bloody kiddie fiddler, but that's OK cos he gets the bins emptied and the grass cut???
You are gladfully in the minority with your sick, supportive mewlings for this lying paedophile.
You should spend the rest of your life ashamed for what you've said here.

Independent supporter said...

BNP and brooneyes at the end of the day I don't care about your mudslinging. The people of Tunstall will decide who are the best people to represent them and they know that Lee and Megan are better councillors than Cope can be. You can try your best but Lee and Megan will have the last laugh!!!

Gary Elsby said...

Craig and Terry:

Yes, a councillor is there to serve the people, however, any numbskull knows, that if that is all that was to be done then there would be no requirement to have 60 councillors. Duh!
Council officers would just issue a referendum a day.

A Councillor is there on a City agenda and not just a local one, so your claim for hero worship by the local community is about par for the BNP.

As for Alby Walker, he knows that when the Labour vote crumbled in May throughout the Country, mine went up by 26%. Maybe I will face Alby in 2010.

Can't wait, personally.

T COPE said...

Sir Find Gask, that comment was aimed at the prat who used my name to post a letter on this site earlier.
I have read all your posts and you are not the sort to post this type of garbage.

Sir Findo Gask said...

t cope, no problem...

To avoid confusion you should register with Blogger that we will know it is the real you when you post ;)

Sorry for misreading your post..

Ian Norris said...

St George: the planning committee is held during working hours, it is not easy most people to get time off work to attend. It does not mean they are not bothered but had no representation at committee.

It will certaihnly be a Landmark for the area, and a beacon home for many at night time.

t cope said...

Oi! Craig, don't forget to bring the KY jelly tonight!

brooneyes said...

I never eat the stuff.

T COPE. said...

Mr Elsby, hero worship? lol
Thats your party's bag not mine.
So the City comes first does it, well I believe the people come first, as they are the City Duh.
I see the prats back using my name.
Whats up don't remember you own name?
This debate is more important than Gary Elsby's fantasies,and attempts to derail it with his paranoia of the BNP.
lets get back to it.

Ian Norris said...

Ladies and Gentleman we can either ignore the Trolls or play along.

This building will have huge impact on many people, you can carry on your little games or try to come to an agreement on how to prevent the same happening across the rest of the City.

Big John said...

Oh, great, another bandwagon for the BNP mischief makers to jump on.
Another populist cause they KNOW they can do nothing about, in fact had the chance- BNP councillors on scrutiny commitees-said nothing!

nicky said...

Triple F: Did I mention anything to do with the BNP in my comment? - no. Why does everything have to be about the BN b**y P anyway? Does being a doctor of something have any relevance whatever to this discussion? not one jot! You are nearly as bad as Gareth b**y Snell at butting in and making totally irrational and irrelevant comments. Apparently you have some sort of issue with me coming in here and taking an interest. Well Tony set up this great web site so everybody can have their free say. But by the way I don't need Tony to tell me what to think, I do that for myself. All I did was have a look at Alison's blog and decided to comment on this monstrosity. I would suggest you might just consider saying something a bit more constructive or shutting up.

TAG Fan said...

Of course we have nothing to do with the BNP. Trust us!

Gary Elsby said...

Terry, first off register your name on No one can then steal your identity.

Second, a good councillor represents the City and locals both at the same time but to mistake that by only speaking for local ward voters means an insular ideology.

I suggest that this ideology is one of the BNP's problems.

The BNP wish to remove Britain from globalisation, the EU and consolodate white Britain.

Very insular, tried a few times in history and always failed 100%.

The BNP only speaking for and within a ward handicaps the BNP and will see more imaginitive people rise and win.

Any idiot can disagree with a bad building, within the ward or outside. You can claim no superiority of conscience and I would suggest that you and Craig should apologise for your earlier attacks upon councillors.

Bob Bagley said...

"You can carry on your little games or try to come to an agreement on how to prevent the same happening across the rest of the City."

A very fair comment Ian, to which the answer has to be for people to start taking some responsibility in their lives and local community rather than expecting others to do it for them and then looking for someone to blame when it goes wrong. As has been said just 5 letters of objection and no one making the case against the development at the planning meeting is disappointing to say the least.

Although I don't agree with the methods and behaviour of the Trentham High School campaigners you certainly can't say that they have just sat there on their backsides!

Tony said...

This thread has 54 comments and not one from me! Leave the politics to one side this is a bloody eyesore whatever your party! Hats off to those who try to get something done about it. Nicky, you stick to your guns, you as much as anyone are entitled to your opinion and you contribute to all threads no matter what the subject, you show your interest in the city, so sod those who say otherwise!
If anyone else knows of something that causes upset to anyone, the let us at pitsnpots know and we will do our best to investigate it and to get answers. That is why we set up the blog, not just for political debate, but to be a public service to those who need it!

warren said...

Tony, have you seen that f*****g big thing being thowen up on the old staffs pots site, I dont think it was made public it was going to be that big. Theres another one going on the old Cooksons site as well, One or to locals are a liitle worryed about the the size and if Wittel Roads going to to able to take the traffic load. I'am off down first chance I get to get some pictours. I have also seen a board outside the develpment with a companeys name begining with K on it, and that companey as very strong links with the city council.

Alison said...

Warren, I agree, and was going to mention it myself, but you beat me to it!

It is another monstrosity. Why do the council planners keep allowing it?

There are many comments on this blog article saying people had chance to object at the planning stage, but I sometimes think the plans don't actually show a true picture, and it's hard for some people to visualise how close something might be to their property.

I think the onus is definitely on the planners (council officials!) to ensure any members of the public, who are all taxpayers in this city, are given full and accurate information about how a planned building might affect their life.

I know it's easy to say you shouldn't buy a house near a factory, or close to open land, when it's quite obvious that the council are likely to allow building on it, but I think the council need to provide more information to its citizens, ensure they know what they are letting themselves in for, and give them proper opportunity to object.

Too often, these big businesses get away with murder. I know Churchill are one of the few pottery companies left in the area, and we need to retain what thriving business there is here, but there are limits, and there are ways of working round people's requirements.

I think the Meir Park thing on he Staffs Pots site needs investigating a bit further Warren. Over to you!

Frank Fuller said...

From what I understand Alison the council currently does what the law requires so far as advertising planning applications are concerned but nothing more.

They will put up the yellow notices in the area of a new development and perhaps write to affected households but thats it.

I agree that the planning department needs to review the way they deal with potentially controversial developments, and in any case I've heard that they have been in some disarray recently due to key members of staff leaving.

Still, it is wrong for the BNP to jump on the bandwagon and try to score points out of this already bad situation.

Hope that helps.

Alison said...

Frank, thanks for that very useful information.

Perhaps it's one we need to add to our list of top 10 issues we want to put to the new Leader and Cabinet?

I appreciate that sometimes key staff leaving a department can cause some difficulties, but as you rightly say, it would be good if the council could review its working practices regarding possibly controversial developments and ensure all affected public are fully consulted and aware of the consequences.

As you seem to know what's going on, do you have any contacts at the council who you could put this point of view across to?

brooneyes said...

You're absolutely right Alison!
The fault for this lies fairly and squarely with the councils planning officers. What ever drove them,( or how much?!!) to agree to this as a suitable site, defies the understanding of common mortals, but the same goes for the one in Meir Park.
They put notices out to tell the locals of these things, but the notices are small and limited in detail. Underhand tactics of this sort should have no place in the reportoire of the planning office.
Here's hoping the BNP get in, we'll clean this mess up and have it back functioning as it should in no time.

Sir Findo Gask said...

Meir Park.

There are two buildings on there.

One has just opened and is a company that makes insulation products, 'twas in the Sentinel this week

The big new one at the side of the A50 is the new Co-op Healthcare NDC, costing circa £15m. Have a look at

The old United Norwest Co-op which was based in Hanley has merged a couple of times and is now part of Co-operative Group. Although they still have offices in the city the head office function is now in Manchester..

Frank Fuller said...

I don't really have any contacts Alison its just what one of my local councillors told me.

It would probably be a good idea for the residents to keep an eye on the Churchill development to make sure that they are doing what they are allowed to, but they would need to check with the council first exactly what the planning committee granted them permission to do.

I'm sure the residents will be more than capable of doing this for themselves and don't need the BNP to do it for them.

Alison said...

See that's just the point though is't it Frank. I speak from experience whereby, as a local resident, you get absolutely no joy from the Elected Mayor, local councillors, council officials, and absolutely no answers to your questions.

So you turn to whoever shows an interest and offers some help. In this particular case and also in mine, it was the BNP.

Terry, Craig and other BNP party members/councillors have listened to the concerns of these residents (who I am sure have already done all the things you mention and have exhausted every avenue open to them and frustrated themselves enormously in doing so). Therefore, they accept help from people who may be able to help them.

We have done the same at Longton High regarding the school closure, and been accused of being BNP activists as a result!

We have a BNP Councillor who is also a Governor of the school, who Tony has mentioned before. Mike Coleman has succeeded in getting answers where sometimes we have failed, and continues to support our cause in trying to get what is right and proper for our staff and students. No one else seemed to be listening at the time.

So I have every sympathy for the residents of Tunstall who are being blighted by this structure, and, if anyone is to blame for residents looking to the BNP for help and assistance, that blame lays firmly on the shoulders of our (ex) Elected Mayor and those merry band of councillors who trod his dictatorship style path with him.

I for one certainly don't support the BNP, again, as Tony has pointed out on a number of occasions on this blog, we are what is known as "floating voters".

What I believe is absolutely right is that every citizen of Stoke on Trent should have an opportunity to challenge and question what is happening in this city, and if the only way they are able to do that is via the BNP councillors or party members, then they will do that, as is their right.

I would much prefer it if the decision makers and the new Council Leader listened to the people, via the representations of individual councillors (from across all parties), but unless this Transition Board being talked about, and the Governance Commission are able to force anything radical in Stoke on Trent, I aren't holding my breath.

I believe this is why over 80% of the city failed to vote last Thursday. They don't believe anything they vote for will make any difference, so don't think it's worth bothering.

What a shame that is.

Big John said...

Alison, may I ask you a question.
What if, you had exhausted all avenues in a particular cause, only one councillor offered you support and that councillor was Lee Wagner?
Would you still accept his help?

TAG Fan said...

This is a good question big john and calls into question morals and ethics which some have put to one side because they are unable to see outside their own little world.

Personally I could not bring myself to accept help from the BNP (racists) or Lee Wanger (paedophile). If you do not have your self respect you have nothing.

Alison said...

In answer to your question, I'm not sure Big John, but judging by the fact that he is a Councillor supposedly representing these people in Tunstall, he appears to be of little use, so I wouldn't expect him to come forward and offer any help really.

I know what you are saying though. It is up to the individual to decide whether they feel strongly enough about their cause to align themselves with people whose views don't represent their own, or whose behaviour isn't something that person would normal condone.

So it would depend what the cause was, how frustrated I was with the current council system and the lack of answers, and whether I felt I would be compromising my own principles by taking up that offer of help.

Confused? So am I!

Big John said...

Alison, so you don't believe you are compromising your principles by aligning yourself with a political party that was OPENLY neo-nazi and OPENLY denied the holocaust up until a few years ago and whole reason for creation was to make Britain an all-white country!

Alison said...

Big John, perhaps I have compromised my principles. But at the moment, there is a big issue at stake for me, and that's the closure of a school, and the future of its staff and students.

If that means I work with people who have different (even extreme) views to mine, then so be it.

It doesn't mean I have to vote them into power does it?

Sorry if the compromising of my principles seems offensive to anyone, but if the real leaders and people in power in this city got off their backsides and did their job - ie consult the people, listen to the people, and work with communities, the whole BSF fiasco would have been so different, and "little" people like me and the poor residents in Tunstall blighted by the Churchill China building wouldn't need to even consider compromising their principles, would they?

I take no responsibility and make no excuses for my actions - it's all down to the decision makers in the city not listening to the people.

Big John said...

Alison, you have well and truly put me in my place. I'll be scampering off now, tail between legs, licking my wounds!

brooneyes said...

Big John, little brain!
Never in my life have I been associated with the nazi's, so if you can't prove it, then I would suggest you shut your big gob!
The BNP came about as a breakaway
group because it wanted a different direction and attitude to what was on offer. The holocaust wasn't denied, the numbers that supposedly died in some of the camps was.
Why is it people like you are forever dragging up exaggerated bullsh*t like this, but we never here you mention all the deaths Blair and Brown are responsible for in Iraq and Afghanistan? Or how about all the deaths they will be responsible for when our pensioners can't afford to use their heating this winter?
What's worse, a mildly contraversial stance on past history, or the murder of hundreds of thousands of people?
Try thinking before you open your trap next time.

Anonymous said...

The real decision makers in this city are the unelected officials not the councillors.

And its wrong that the councillors often get the blame for the cock ups of the officials. Overpaid and underproductive thats what they are, salaries quite often over £1,000 per week. And most of the lazy workers are no better.

I'm sorry if this has offended and council emoloyees but these are my true feelings on how I have seen things.

Big John said...

Craig, I can't believe your ignorance regarding the BNP's history. In fact I don't believe it. You have access to the Internet and I might remind you, so does every one else reading this blog.

The BNP was formed in 1982 by John Tyndall as a breakaway from the National Front, that much is true.
John Tyndall was a rabid anti-Semite and an unabashed neo-nazi, there is plenty of pictures of him indulging in his fetish, dressed as a Waffen SS officer.

The BNP's policies throughout his tenure were of white supremacy, holocaust denial and their key policy was the immediate and forcible repatriation of all non-whites.

They OPENLY had these policies up until very recently when Nick Griffin took charge but he TOO used to be chairman of the neo-nazi National Front.
He also has a conviction for incitement to racial hatred when he called for attacks on black people "with well heeled fists and boots".
There is also the time when he referred to the holocaust as a holohoax.

Craig, you can try to deny these FACTS all you want to BUT they are FACTS. Whether you like it or not, before 1999/2000 the BNP were OPENLY neo-nazi with strong links to terrorist groups like Combat 18!

Sir Findo Gask said...

Off topic slightly but keeping up with the posts about the BNP. Nick Griffin was seen wandering around Longton in June and being interviewed for Panorama.

I'm not sure when or if it was aired..

brooneyes said...

What have I just said?!
For all intents and purposes, the BNP as it is now came into being when Nick Griffin won the leadership challenge and took the party from John Tyndall. He did this with the SPECIFIC aim of changing the direction it had been headed in.
Trace back through the Tory party history and you will find rabid racists, the same with Labour and fascists. None of this past history has a bloody thing to do with today and what's happening here, and I note you sidestepped the questions I put to you!
All you're doing is sh*t stirring
and I'm afraid it's old hat and nothing more than wearisome now. Get some new material, you loser.

Ian Norris said...

Alsion: All Councillors recieve a weekly list of all applications made, they should use this to consult with local people, if not, this is also avaible for the public at

Frank: whil ehtye monitor sadly the Council Enforcement officers are often unwilling to take action, unliess on a residential matter.

Alison: why will Cllrs now Listen when under a leader if they failed to listen under a mayor they are the same Cllrs. NOTHING will sadly change. WE need to change the make up of Cllrs I'm all for Smaller Wards representing individual communities. We've had Elections every year to change just 33% of your representation. We could move towards samll wards each cllr representing 2000 people and yearly or b-annual ALL out elections. Same cost as yearly elections but could make a huge change to the way Cllrs listen.

Ian Norris said...

Anonymous: The Officers are employeed by the Cllrs. If Cllrs have failed to challneged the Officers and allowed them to do as they may, then that is a FAULT of the Cllrs NOT the officers who just follow national guidelines.

We need Cllrs that will not succumb to regional guidelines and do what is right for the City.

And some Cllrs I felt would stand up to officers havge yet to learn how to.

Big John said...

Sir Findo Gask, that particular panorama programme aired on 25th August titled "True Brits", going around the country asking what the term British meant. I just googled it. See, Craig, what you can find out on the internet.

Craig, you can't compare the BNP's political history with other parties as other political parties history may contain only INDIVDUALS who had fascist agendas, where as the whole reason for the BNP's existence and creation was for nazi idolisation and the ultimate aim of an all-white Britain.

As has been proved and you can't deny, until recently the BNP were OPENLY fascist.
The supposed changing of ideals is merely a propaganda exercise and an attempt to portray themselves in a false moderate image to gain votes.

Nick Griffin is the key orchestrator behind this false propaganda of modification but he is still fascist to the core, as can be proved.
The leader himself admitted this just a few years ago on a fund raising mission in the United States in front of a crowd of KKK members. He said to them we haven't abandoned our previous agenda only the wording, we STILL believe exactly what you believe!

Nick Griffin throughout his life has been a nazi idolizer, ever since his father took him to a National Front rally as a boy. He has not changed what he believes in and previously OPENLY espoused.

1]He was a former member and CHAIRMAN of the neo-nazi National Front.
2]He has a conviction for incitement to racial hatred when he called for black people to be attacked "with well heeled fists and boots".
3]He referred to the holocaust as a holohoax and is still good friends with race hate convicted and vehement holocaust denier David Irving.
4]He said to Roger Cook when he first became chairman of the BNP that the BNP would forcibly repatriate all non-whites even if they were born in this country.

I have not sidestepped any questions as it is a classic BNP diversionary tactic to avoid facing and answering the truth by asking counter questions.

t cope said...

Craig you left your underpants at my house last night. Can you come round and collect them as I'm getting fed up of the smell.

brooneyes said...

I can't be arsed. Give 'em your
dog as a chew toy.

t cope said...

You know thats not a very sensible suggestion Craig. The last dog we gave your underpants to had to be put down.

brooneyes said...

Are you the same person now that you were at 20?
I'm not, and neither are you.
Have you ever said or done anything you regret?
Of course you have, so have we all.
Did his words of anger kill or maim anyone?
No, they're just words.
If there is some doubt in the minds of some people about the validity of the figures of the holocaust, why not investigate them in a calm and logical manner, instead of jumping up and down, screaming and shouting like a monkey that just rubbed Deep Heat on his scrotum? What harm will it do to investigate?
None whatsoever.
Why don't you do that?
Because your sole purpose is to cast aspersions, lies and exaggerations to try and further your political aim of damaging the BNP.
Will your ruse work?
Not a bloody chance. Whether or not you acknowledge it, more and more people are seeing the BNP for the commonsense party they are, not the monsters morons like you paint us as.
How do I know?
Because I'm Branch Secretary, and I get to send out infopacks to all new inquiries. There have been a lot!
Like I said earlier, get some new material, this is the same old tripe you lefties trot out every time you get worried about us making advances.

brooneyes said...

Give 'em to you sister then, that b*tch would eat anything.

Big John said...

Craig, I don't have some big political aim to damage the BNP.
This started as as a question towards Alison in which I rightly pointed out the majority of the BNP's political history as being a neo-nazi organisation whose sole aim was the creation of an all white Britain.

Then you went all huffy puffy and claimed I was lying so I backed my claims up with facts then you got even more huffy and puffy!

If you claim that Nick Griffin has changed his ways and has a completely different viewpoint than he has had for the majority if his life, I'll take your word for it. He WAS filmed stating to KKK members at the invitation of "Grand Wizard" David Duke that he STILL believes EXACTLY what they believe and BNP campaigns are merely rhetoric in 2002 but hey he might of changed in the last 6 years!

If the BNP make more gains then they make more gains. If they get more councillors on Stoke-On-Trent council and overall control then so be it. I don't really care, I can always just move somewhere else where there is absolutely no BNP presence whatsoever, like erm', just about everywhere else!

brooneyes said...

Let me know when you're going, I'll stand at the nearest bridge and wave goodbye.

T Cope said...

Right this has gone beyond a joke now. There's some sick people out there who haven't the guts to sign their own name to the filth they're posting about me and Craig. I'm absolutely fed up with all you dirty perverts making innuendo and fun about us being gay lovers. I know its not just one person doing it. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. It's disgusting and you're all just sick. You seriously all need to get a life and a spine.
Can't two grown men enjoy a bit of bum chumming without everyone else indulging in smutty comment? Me and Craig love each other dearly, it's not just the sex. At Christmas we give each other thongs, and on Valentine's last year he gave me a box of swastika chocolates. So can all you jokers out there just pack it in and leave me and Craig to enjoy chocolate fudgecake in peace. Look, it's a free country and the BNP absolutely believe in freedom, it's a shame alot of our co-members don't so thats why we've been in the closet for so long. So will you all just leave us both alone you f**king homophobic animals. Thankyou.

Lee Sanders said...

Will you childish idiots stop using Mr Cope's name.
Terry and Craig are decent people, sticking up for the good,honest indigenous peoples of these isles.

lee sanders said...

Plus I love him too.

The Real Lee Sanders said...

Look at what you PC do gooder marxists are reduced to.
Childish gay slurs.
Your losing the debate with the excellent Craig Pond so have to stoop to this level.

the real lee sanders said...

We just go for childish paki slurs instead

Bob said...

Is it me or should the BNP be renamed the "spit the dummy party".

Anonymous said...

I have to say, they might bloody well be childish but the repeated the gay slurs about the local BNPs finest are about the funniest thing I've read on here.

Anonymous said...

And anyway who are the indigenous peoples of these islands? The English aren't, they came from Germany and Denmark 1500 years ago. The Irish aren't, they came from Spain 2500 years ago. The Welsh aren't, they came from Central Europe approx 2500 years ago. And the Scots came from wherever the Welsh and the Irish originated from. Then there's all the other people that came later. So whats the difference with the Jews, Blacks and Asians?

Alison said...

Is there anyone out there who thinks we should get back to the issues made in the original blog? I am a bit fed up of all this childish humour. Doesn't it undermine what is a very serious issue for the people living close to the Churchill China site?

Can you all grow up, register your name using the blogger account facility, then we all know who's who.

Let's stop messing about on here and get back to debating real issues instead of pratting around.

Lee Sanders said...

I agree Alison, lets get back to the matter in hand.
The good people of Birchall Avenue contacted the BNP because they knew they would get the job done.
I am confident with Terry and Craig on the case there will be no ifs or buts, the job will be done.

T COPE. said...

Well said Alison, and thank you Lee Sanders, we will try our best to solve this situation, working with the residents, and community involved.
This is a situation where we believe the residents will have a life of hell, if Churchill are allowed to go ahead, and not one for infantile debate, on political partys, and rediculous childish filth.

Exposing Hypocrites said...

So Lee Sanders has the audacity of accusing other people of being childish. Have any of you read his comments on the "Sunday Funday" blog. I suppose that's OK though Lee, it was aimed at so called non indigenous councillors!

TAG Fan said...

OK back on the issue.

Clearly the people concerned have gone through all stages of the process to make known their views on this development, made objections to the original planning application (which infortunately they seem not to have done very well) then contacted councillors afterwards to complain.

I fully accept that people do not want this development near to where they live, but the fact is that the council would have been unlikely to give their permission if there was anything illegal about it because of the potential consequences, not least the financial ones.

So where do people who are still unhappy go from here? I don't know, but my strong suspicion is that the BNP will be out telling them anything they want to hear regardless of whether it is legal, possible or truthful and this does not help them one bit.

Frank Fuller said...

If the people here still believe that this new building will damage the quality of their lives and devalue their homes and think they have enough to prove it in court perhaps they should get together, hire a solicitor and sue Churchills for financial compensation. Just my suggetion.

Nazi watcher said...

It's an old BNP trick to post indecent stories of themselves and then cry a decent argument of victimisation by communists and socialists.
It doesn't work, Terry. We know that it is you and craig trying to be sensible and upstanding.
I gather Hitler (Uncle Adolph)was 'wonderful with children'.

Those he didn't have gassed, shot and their Mothers raped of course.

brooneyes said...

Tag fan,
where do you get this crap from? Is there a shop I don't know about where you loonies and losers can purchase stupid comments??
Some of the stuff you morons write about the BNP defies belief. Stick to provable facts and let's have a sensible discussion.

Tony said...

Soddin' 'ell I go away for a few day's, spy the chance of a Wifi to catch up with my blog and find out Terry & Craig are gay lovers!
Seriously people if you want to have a go at Craig and the other people of the BNP at least have the bollocks to do it under a proper google account rather than using the Anon facility! The Anon facility was put there to protect anyone from "within" who wanted to contribute from the debate without compromising themselves.
I could start deleting every non serious Anonymous post if it carries on, but that's a bit too much like hard work, so lay off!
I would say this on these buildings, either this one or the ones on Meir Park, don't let us forget that these are put there to create employment for the people of this city and have had to go the the city planning department. Sometimes apathy rules for those who just will not act until something like this goes up near them and then all hell breaks loose! People need to take interest in whats going on in their communities and then issues like this would be avoided.
I have always wanted pitsnpots to be there for those who need help in fighting the beaurocrats, we have a good team and are buliding up a network of contacts from around and within the local authority.

TAG Fan said...

A very fair comment Tony about employment. The city certainly needs jobs at the moment. Can the people here fairly be accused of Nimbyism? I don't know.

Wikipedia defines it like this:

NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard). The term is used to describe opposition to a new project by residents, even if they themselves and those around will benefit from the construction. Often, the new project being opposed is generally considered a benefit for many, but residents nearby the immediate location consider it undesirable and would generally prefer the building to be "elsewhere".

Something else to throw into the debate.

TAG Fan said...

Oh I almost forgot to ask and it would be rude of me not to, any luck yet Craig with retrieving your underpants from Terry's house?

T Cope said...

No he hasn't. And they're a bit wiffy too. And I can't work out what these brown and creamy white stains are all about either. And found wallpaper paste on the bedroom wall this morning at the same it stank of a rancid fart. OK it really is me and nazi watcher is totally right, it's the same way the Nazis burned the Reichstag and blamed the pinko commies. Actually you know, there isn't much difference between communism and national socialism. Just a bunch of poor people who can't be arsed, scabbing of the minority than can be arsed being successful. A classic example of envy, blame and dependence culture. You signing on with Steve Bats tommorrow Craig?

Anonymous said...

Another cock-up with Barnes in charge of Development Control!

Ian Norris said...

Anon: it tales a majority to vote a decision through, not just the Chair. Unless you know otherwise

TAG Fan said...

Yes, and it would not have been a political decision to grant planning permission as there are members of all parties/groups represented on the planning committee.

Sir Findo Gask said...

Did anyone see Midlands Today last night about Meir Park?

brooneyes said...

Sir Findo.
Yes, the BNP arranged for the news people to come down as it is us that has been trying to help the residents. Excellent coverage,
even if they refused to film us!

Sir Findo Gask said...

Was good coverage regardless of who arranged it. It also backs up what Frank F said about the council doing the minimum required in law for planning application notices..

warren said...

I have now aranged to take a holaday next week from work and indeed get some photos of the Meir Park Monster and indeed start to rase f***in' merry hell about it. As I say in my posting at no stage was it made awere that it was to be this large and it turns out that it may already be fully staffed so offering little to the local area, unless you count heavy slow moveing traffic and liveing in its shadow. Well done to the lads (Terry, Craig and the others) on bringing this problem to the fore, the Ropers need reeling in a bit. Like I say I've had a run or two with them lot before.

Sir Findo Gask said...


Co-op Healthcare is who will be moving in to the building in 2009. The building will be highly automated and staff will transfer from other sites in the city. There will be some vacancies I'm sure but not as many as you would expect from a building this size..

John Nuttall is the Managing Director, Healthcare. You can contact him at

The Co-operative Pharmacy
Sandbrook Park
Sandbrook Way
OL11 1RY

Tel: 01706 202020

Anonymous said...

How can anybody tell the genuine and not so genuine T Cope posts now? I'm so confused, I was actually taken in by the whole thing. I've always had my suspicions about Steve Batkin but I'd never have believed it was either of these two? I still don't, just some sick wind up. Terry, piece of advice, get an ID for this site so no-one can try and impersonate you as some sort of gay ass reeming maniac.

warren said...

Sir Findo, thats for the infomation my old freand you are indeed a god. As for you anonymous, can you go on the wind up on a blug desined to have a joke with as this ones just got inportante.

Ian Norris said...

Stoke planning website appears to be down? what have you lot been upto.

But really what can anyone really do, all boxes have been ticked.

As yet agin in this City people only start moaning when it is too late. Can this be a WAKE UP call to ALL to take an interest in their area esp the Local Dev Framework, Local Transport Plan, there used to be City Plan ( and the latest one that has now shelved had some interesting application for removal from the Green Belt )

warren said...

Mr Norris, if the council would clearly explain just how big some of these buildings are going to be thgen we would be faster to say 'hang on a moment, thats a bit much'. Its not just the area it covers, as it stands the area is on as been wasteland or staffs pots land for meny years, the main problems is the hight of the blesed thing and the traffic that this and the other proposel for the Cookson site will force onto Whittel Road. I have seen some plans for that one and it seems much better with landscapeing to help to hide the impact of the building to the area.

As for the web site theses always something down on that thing anyway, I think Mayday Merediths done something to it out of

T Cope said...

I'm free!

Sir Findo Gask said...


I agree with you, once the boxes have been ticked and the ink is dry on the signature of the planning officer at the bottom of the application there is little that people can do.

As you say, people need to stop being so apathetic and take an interest in what is going on in their local area.

Ian Norris said...

Warren web site is back up and both appliction the one in 2006 and 2007 both clearly show in diagrams the hieght of the building and Design.

They didn't even try get around it with Outline planning first it was for Full Planning permission.

Sorry Warren, but either your Local Councillor or Residents association should have taken more action

warren said...

Ian, yes, and so I see, its worth a little yell about all the same and a stropy letter to the co-op. Anyway, leasons to be leaned hear, start to stamp around as soon as some like this big old thing gets put forward. Whip round the local area, tell them how big the bugger is and get them ready to stick there two finggers up to the planers.

Ian Norris said...

Oh yeh worth a yell.. better out then in so they say.. Yes everyone one needs to get involved and not sit back and Say "well they'll do it any way" (they probable will though) but everyone entitled to a voice.

there a page on Stoke web site with all WEEKLY planning applications, maybe you could monitor for your area. OR maybe someone start another blog or email list or mailing group for planning applications City Wide.

terry turbo said...

Ian, and Frank, the problem as arose because of apathy on the part of those at the time this protest was started, along time ago.
Now they see what they will be looking at every time they look out of their windows, now they are interested.
It did not help with a local councillor going round telling people, the residents of Birchall Avenue have been compensated financialy.
No one has stood up for these people, and they asked for our help, what are we supposed to do be like the others, and keep out of it because of our political party.
Sorry but thats not an option I will take on any occasion.
These people deserve a fair hearing, and we will see they get it, by any means

T Cope said...

"These people deserve a fair hearing, and we will see they get it, by any means".
I mean that's if their white!!

Ian Norris said...

Terry: and how will you achieve a fair hearing now, your too late for a judicial review.

And I think the local people did the best that they could in circumstances, now to the huge nature of the over all master plan for Chatterley Valley.

How about looking at re-opening of Chatterley road, How much will that cost? What was result of public consultaion, why place zebra crossing on a blind bend on brow of a hill ?? Does it really need to be opened? You could possible do something about that one..