Friday, 31 October 2008

Vaccinations – are the policies right?

In recent times we are periodically seeing outbreaks of tuberculosis. A couple of articles in the Sentinel recently illustrate this. On Wednesday we heard of a case at Clough Hall Technology School in Kidsgrove – click here for the story. Today we hear of a vodafone worker in Chesterton with the desease – click here for the story. Vodafone employs around 1,400 people in Chesterton, Newcastle and Etruria.

Now when I was a child, we had the BCG vaccine, which offers 70%-80% protection (
reference) against TB and I just feel it might have been a mistake to discontinue this vaccination programme in schools.

As a parent I am particularly concerned about my children when they go off to university. It’s great to go to university and that involves extensive contact with people from many other places. This is a good experience but inevitably means that new students tend to catch all sorts of illnesses, although most of these are minor. So personally I would have preferred it if my children could have been vaccinated like I was at school. We know the safety and efficacy of the BCG vaccine because it has been used for so many years. I plan, nearer the time, to enquire about getting my children vaccinated against TB. However the comment by Joanne Hymers, whose daughters attend Clough Hall school, does not bode well. Obtaining this vaccine even privately appears not to be easy, although I can’t see any reason why a private healthcare provider would want to refuse.

It also seems that cases of measles are on the increase – click
here for yesterday’s story on this. I also seem to remember an outbreak of mumps a few years ago. I suppose this is inevitable, as not all parents will choose to have their children vaccinated. I am supportive of parents rights to decide what is best for their children regarding vaccination, even if it is not the same as the choice I would make.

One of the most recent new vaccines to be introduced is the HPV vaccine – click
here for the story. Although this looks like it could be a good vaccine, I think they have got the timing wrong. I give more detail in my comment on this article.

What do you think about vaccination and the outbreaks of TB and other diseases?


brooneyes said...

I can almost here those fingers being lifted in my direction, and the words"racist, racist" being prepared to be shouted.
Britain had all but seen the back of this disease through the
immunisation programme, but a mix
of asylum seekers, refugees, and
immigrants have brought it back,
including one particularly resilient strain that is resisitant to antibiotics. You should expect to see more and more cases like this, as well as the vastly multiplying cases of hiv/aids.
If you allow these people into the country unchecked/illegaly, then this is what you have to expect.
Just another reason to rejoice in this multi culti society.

st george said...


Does that mean that we are not allowed to have our holidays abroad ?

Often, these bugs are picked up and brought back to Blighty, by us indigenous Brits on our jaunts to far off hot places....

But, in a world where no disease can truly said to be fully eradicated, and the older TB, smallpox, mumps, rubella and measles jabs are not so expensive - why are we not still giving them as the norm, and opting out (for good reasons only), rather than opting in ??

This is important as some jabs can only be given as you become a certain age, and the more public around you that have not been imunised, the more likely you are to catch it, whilst waiting...

Martin said...

Craig, you really do talk shit sometimes. Like St George said, what about Brits on holiday? There are countless Brits bringing back diseases that we thought we'd seen the last of because they were either too idle or too stupid to be vaccinated before going on their exotic holidays. As usual the only person crying racist is you, quite ironic really as you are overtly the most racist person in Stoke on Trent. As for AIDS/HIV, that has little to do with foreigners and more to with the that we are possibly the most sexually promiscuous nation in Europe, something backed up by the rate of STDs among our own citizens - worst in the EU, fact. Ever heard of 18-30 holidays or why there's a resort known as Shagaluf?

Martin said...

In fact have you never heard the joke made locally when the Beckhams called their first kid Brooklyn? If people round here named their kid after where they were conceived there'd be an awful lot of people called "back alley near Yate's".

Anonymous said...

Weren't both these cases to do with people that had picked the disease up whilst on holiday abroad?

Anonymous said...

Barnes will kick the BNP when he becomes leader.

brooneyes said...

Sad deluded tossers.

terry turbo said...

It appears the children have been let out to play again, using other peoples names because they have not got the guts to sign their own.
Martin, and St George, so the rise in TB, and Aids is down to British Holiday makers?
Nothing whatsoever to do with immigration?
Well look at the figures a bit closer, and take the blinkers off.
You will find the information you need on migration watch, and the World Health Authority, which disproves your theory.
I agree that some holiday makers have brought back deseases, but these are in a minority, maily because of the vaccination programme that was in place when they were growing up, and yes world travel being easier as not helped the situation.
The main fault lies in the Governments total stupidity to fail to screen all immigrants for contagious deseases.
This is a health issue not a race issue, so lets try and debate it as such.
A vaccination programme needs to be implimented straight away, before the situation becomes critical, but I won't be holding my breath.

nita said...

Nicky, thanks for this very interesting blog.

I for one, was unaware that they no longer gave the TB immunization. It seems a really strange decision, not to provide this injection any more. As others have said, people travel in and out of countries, with more and more people going on long haul holidays. You have to have many jabs to travel abroad now, plus a course of malaria tablets. So, why stop the TB immunisation. Surely, this is one of the more important ones.

I did read the story, about the employee of Vodafone, and it would be interesting to see, if this person had travelled abroad recently.

Like you say measles has been on the increase, but parents have continued to opt out of their child receiving the MMR injection. I appreciate, there has been big concerns over this injection, but if something is on offer to protect you, you should, unless there is very good reason, take up every injection available.

Anonymous said...

t cope,these pusillanious, puerile, and adolescent comments like these are the reason I believe people like you should be banned from procreation.
Also I believe you and your other imposters are the sad consequence of a failed Education system, and a failed responsible parental upbringing.

nicky said...

Nita, I'm not surprised you weren't aware the BCG had been stopped because it is fairly recent. It took me by surprise when I found out, I had always just assumed my children would have it, then I was disappointed to find out they won't.

I was looking on this nhs info site:

It says the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, an 'independent panel of experts' advised Government in July 2005 to stop the schools-based programme. But frustratingly it does not explain why. I expect that it is because it is down to money and I'm rather resentful of that. It seems to me also that it is over these recent years that we have seen regular stories of TB outbreaks.

St George, I agree with you that surely these tried and tested vaccines are worth continuing with, unless as perhaps with smallpox, it really is so very rare. I don't think TB is rare, so despite the fact that this panel are 'experts' (at saving the government some money perhaps) and I'm not, I can not say I agree with them.

On the money issue, apparently this HPV vaccine is pretty expensive, but they seem to be risking wasting the money by giving it to girls when they are too young, because potentially they could find out in a few years time it is not long lasting enough and they are not properly protected. I'm not saying they shouldn't give this one, if it's going to reduce cancers it's a great thing, just make sure that the money is spent most effectively by giving it at an appropriate age.

And it would be effective to give the cheaper well known older vaccines too, especially when they start having to treat these increasing TB cases. But why wait until we have a lot of ill people, why not vaccinate comprehensively now.

Craig and Terry turbo, I have to say you are right about the immigrants largely bringing in the TB, at least according to that web site you are. It says "although there has been a 10% rise in cases in 2005, 70% of these cases are in people born outside the UK". It also says "if a child does not come into one of the higher risk groups, they will not be entitled to have BCG." So whilst I risk a possible barrage of criticism for taking an almost 'bnp' view, it does seem to me reading this that my children are being denied this vaccine because they are white British and I resent this. Apparently they are low risk but I don't see it that way as they grow up and travel, even if just within Britain, for study/work.

I'm personally not against immigration as such. I agree it ought to have controls and that testing for diseases where this is easy to do might be worthwhile. Immigration and certainly travel are going to happen. People will mix as they move for perhaps work and business purposes and of course people will want holidays. It is good in any case for different groups of people to meet eachother. So from this health perspective I think the answer is not in keeping people apart but is in providing a good preventative vaccination programme. Arguing that cases of a disease can be treated just doesn't make sense when prevention is supposed to be better than cure.

T Cope said...

Have a job there anonymous, I've already had kids. I can't believe where people like Martin and St George get their ludicrous ideas from. Even though it's been proven that Brits going on holiday do bring these diseases back with them I refuse to believe it. I also refuse to believe that we have the highest the rate of STDs in Europe even though that's been proven too. Like all good members of the BNP I refuse to believe that anything wrong comes of the salt of the earth white Brits even when it's proven beyond all doubt. Like all good party members I have at least two pairs of rose tinted specs.

Slim Shady said...

Would the real Terry Cope, please stand up, please stand up

nicky said...

To (the fake) t cope;
It's getting really tedious having
to see your homosexual fantasies
displayed on this site. Could
you please go away, find yourself
a nice bloke and get on with it
in your own private place, and
keep it off the web site eh!

Martin said...

By fake you mean it in the plural don't you, as it appears to me that there are several people now pretending to be Terry Cope? This site has annoyingly been hijacked by a load of jokers joining a bandwagon and I might be imagining it but the posts seem to be drying up.

nicky said...

Yes I would like all the fakes who are apparently part of the Terry Cope fan club to disappear or use their own names. But particularly that gay one, if he wants to be gay that's ok, but there must be other sites he can go to for that sort of talk.

Martin said...

Sorry Nicky, I think I might not have explained myself very well. I would say that there are several people pretending to be a gay Terry Cope, not just one, and it's probably become sport for a few demented loonies out there. The real Terry Cope is probably too worried to come on the site in case he gets bombarded. The posts genuinely commenting on the issues raised in each forum seem to be drying, possibly as a result of the jokers.

T COPE said...

I have never run away from fools Martin.
The sad fact is, anybody looking at this site must believe some Stokies must be eal morons.
These infantile comments are not worth my time commenting on them.
This site has been brilliant in that we are able to debate with different viewpoints, on a sensible level.
I have been posting under another registered name.

Roger said...

T Cope, yes your right, some Stokies ARE "eal" morons, they do fall for your thinly veiled propaganda after all.
Terry is that other registered user name turbo terry?

terry turbo said...

Roger, I missed an r off real, wow.
I must watch my grammar.
Yes I have posted under this name.
I did this because idiots were using my name to post, but did not have the guts to put their name to their infantile posts.
What propaganda are you on about, as I always say as I see.
I will debate issues with people, but stop debating when the insults start.
Their are more sensible people ready to debate with than idiots, so I hope to have some good debates with people of different views, in a civilised fashion.
This site has opened up to all comments, but with some of the idiots posting may have to revise its policy, as it is open to being sued for liable because of these people, who by the way can be tracked down by their IP address, if they were reported.
I and many others don't want censorship.
Tony, and the others have done a fantstic job with this site, so lets not spoil it.

Me, Somewhere in the Potteries said...

Terry, what is liable? Liable for what? If you mean libel that's a civil, not a criminal matter. You would need to take action yourself, the authorities won't do that for you. Libel is a very costly legal process and you would not only have to track down the perpetrators but you'd also have to prove the comments made were damaging in some way. Someone alleged to be impersonating you on a forum site and pretending to be gay may not be seen as that damaging, not an issue these days, and the damages awarded probably wouldn't cover your costs. Big problem, how many T Copes are there out there? I doubt you're the only one. Whoever has been posting the dickhead comments could say they were impersonating a different T Cope. How do you prove that wasn't the case? How do you prove it was meant to be you and it was malicious?
The authorities are not going to track people down because of juvenile comments on a forum site, they have more pressing matters to police on the internet like film and music piracy. One question that would be asked if they were involved would be why were these people not blocked via their IP address. If you're going to try and scare people with legal consequences do yourself a favour and actually sound like you know a little about Civil Law and not just throw the words sue or liable (sic) thinking that everyone will suddenly get scared. We're not all thick in this city.

Gary Elsby said...

I believe that it was wrong to persecute against the opinion that the MMR jab was not responsible for autism.

The evidence clearly suggests it was and maybe is.

Anonymous said...

Me, Someherwe in the potteries, you know you'll get the obvious response to your last post don't you: "I was only joking and some people just take things ways too seriously" etc... Which is usually a sign of they were being serious and are retracting when someone has pointed out the folly of their comment.

terry turbo said...

Somewhere, this was a general comment about some of the commentors, as some of them border Liable (the written word)with their personel attacks.
I was not trying to scare anyone just putting a point forward.
I could not give a stuff what they say about me, with their juvenile comments.
The same for those that use names to make them look like BNP supporters, this is a typical left wing trick that fools only the stupid.
Now can we get back to the debate.

Anonymous said...

Terry, it's libel, not liable.

T Cope said...

Catch me if you can, and all the others. Like the police are going spend time and money trying to work out who has been claiming to be a gay T Cope.

Like Me says, there's probably so many T Cope's out there how are you going to prove the remarks were aimed at you.

You don't even know the correct legal term, it's libel, not liable. Liable would mean you being responsible for an accident caused by negligence amongst many other things. And being referred to in a gay relationship may not seem to be damaging as that is another criteria for any form of defamation (libel - written, slander - spoken).

Anonymous said...

Terry, don't just learn the correct legal terms, learn to spell. There's an actual difference between personal and personel (sic).

Alison said...

I too am finding it a bit tedious having our site hijacked by morons who can't seem to remember their own name, so have to post using someone else's.

I have now done a blog article on this, requesting our real bloggers/ debaters set up a blogger account, then Tony, Nita and myself, in consultation with the other bloggers, will decide how to deal with these "fake" posters who do not enter into the debate, or appear to have anything valuable to add to the topic under discussion. It seems likely we will start removing these posts, as they are detrimental to the continued success of this site.

Our motto may be "Your Site, your city, your say", but it is a genuine debating site, not a playground for morons. You have been warned.

Play nicely, or get off this site!

John Smith said...

Talking of vaccinations, when's Craig Pond getting his rabies shots? Play nicely, tell that to Mr Pond.

T Cope said...

John Smith, that's not nice. Craig's a wonderful fellow and I think, if you met him, you would find him to be the nicest person in the world.
That's if your white that is!!

brooneyes said...

John Smith, there is no cure for rabies.

John Smith said...

That's you screwed then !!!!

terry turbo said...

Back to the debate, we need a full scale immunization programme set up immediately against all communicable deseases.
The Governments own figures state that communicable deseases are going up, so wheres the problem.
Money is not an issue if Brown can go dishing it out to India and China by the millions.
Doctors, and nurses? well half of those comming out of training could not find employment.
It was Blair that put the dought in peoples minds about the MMR jab, when he refused to say if his baby had the injection, coupled with the report that there was fault with the combined injection.
As for the rise in Aids, and the introduction of the deadly form of TB this was covered by Panarama, and the Tonight programme, and both found that the influx of migrants from Eastern Europe, and from the African countries, combined with lack of border medical checks, had created the situation we have today.

warren said...

All the fake T Copes need a Vaccination, aganst foolishness, to provent this site being riddeled with it. Anyway, had to have the Flu jab on Thursday and been layed up with a cold since, it not doing me any good at all.

terry turbo said...

Oh I forgot the £40 million a year Britain donates to Mugabe's Zimbabwe.

T Cope said...

We need a full scale deportation programme set up immediately against all non whites.
The Governments own figures state that the non whites are going up, so there's the problem.
Gordon Brown keeps letting in people from the Indian subcontinent and Africa by the millions.
Doctors, and nurses? well half of those can come out of the indigenous population, training could find employment.
It was Blair that let the floodgates of peoples from the third world, when he refused to say if he would end immigration, coupled with the report that the birth rate of non whites was so high.
As for the rise in Aids, this is due to he influx of monkeys from African countries, combined with lack of border medical checks, have created the situation we have today.

John Lowe said...

T Cope, speaking sense as ever.
I would go further though and deport anyone who had a suntan!