Wednesday, 8 October 2008


Mark Fisher MP for Stoke Central is urging the governments schools minister Jim Knight to reject SERCO's proposal to reorganise Secondary Education in this city. He also lashed out at those councilors on the Elected Mayors payroll who voted against the vote of no confidence in the company that run the Cities Education Department. The vote of "no confidence" in SERCO was brought by Terry Follows the Independent Councilor for Trentham and Hanford. The other two ward councilors Roger Ibbs & Ross Irving voted against the wishes of the constituents of Trentham & Hanford and backed the under fire company. In fact Mr Ibbs Claimed during the debate in the council chamber that the improvement made by Trentham High School was because of SERCO's involvement in education and not in spite of it! This has caused outrage among the members of the Save Trentham High Campaign.
Mr Fisher was not happy with the validity of the vote and had this to say
"There is a huge question mark over the validity of the vote. It is quite clear such a huge change hasn't got the confidence of parents. It has not got the confidence of the council and you cannot make this enormous change on the basis of an uncertain situation.
Click here!

"Look at the names of the councillors who voted for Serco's plans. Check them against the people with special allowances. It is effectively a pay roll vote."

This is the first time i can think of that a Labour politician either MP or councilor has spoken out against members of the party.
Mr Fisher has also come out in favour of the "democracy4stoke" campaign led by Councilor Mike Barnes who wants an end to the Elected Mayor system.
The whole city has been waiting for our three Labour MP's to come out in the open and state their preference of governance for the city they represent. When will Joan Walley and Rob Flello speak out?
Serco are not the most popular people in our city and indeed their is still a huge outcry that Trentham, Longton, Berryhill & Mitchell High Schools are to close.
Do you think Jim Knight will take any notice of Mr Fisher? Do you think that the schools earmarked for closure still have a chance of a reprieve? What do you want our MP's to do now? Over to you.........

To read the Sentinel article click the link:


Helen said...

Personally I think it's all a lot of hot air & SERCO will finish the job they have started.
If the government were going to take any notice they would have done so already.
Meetings have taken place,as we know between our local MP's, a delegation of Headteachers & government officials & nothing has come of them, so why would the government step in now?
Until we get rid of the Elected Mayoral system, the government really have no say on what goes on within the City, just like the rest of us.

nita said...

This is why I question if the Mayoral System is the right way forward for Stoke on Trent. How can it be democratic, if Councillors who are receiving special allowances, always have to vote and agree with the Mayor. Having said that, maybe they do genuinely think, that their decision is right. Serco came in, because Stoke on Trent was 147th in the table out of 150, and I feel that great improvements need to be made. Not totally convinced on the Academies, as I think it is a cop out for the LA, as underperforming and unpopular schools, will not be their responsibility. The sponsors will have to take full control.

ian norris said...

The Cabinent WILL still recieve special allowances, under a leader system TOO no difference. But under Independent Mayor could be choosen at will for experince rather then being part of an alliance.

brooneyes said...

Mark Fisher is just smarter than the other two Labour MP's we find ourselves lumbered with. What he's doing is electioneering, and he's been about his work for a few months now. At least he's showing some spirit, which is more than I can say for the other two.

Gary Elsby said...

Experience of what, Ian, how to make cups and saucers?
How to make a profit at making cups and saucers?

A politician should lead, whether it be mayor or leader.

That's why I like politicians who make cups and saucers at a profit!

brooneyes said...

Excellent point that reminded me of something I meant to impart earlier.
As the rules stand at the minute, the 60 councillors can do nothing but make recommendations. One of the things the BNP will be looking at if the referendum chooses the mayoral system, will be introducing rules to ease back on the omnipotent position it is at present.
Part of that will be looking at ways to increase the influence of councillors, as I don't believe we'll see them at their best until
they have more influence on what is going on. Citizens have the right to be represented by those they voted for, so it's only fair that they get their chance to do.

Nigel said...

this all sounds great, all these wonderful policies and objectives. Where have you Knights in shining armour been all these years. I just know, with you guys in charge everythings going to be all right!

Gary Elsby said...

When it came to voting for a black/asian Mayor, the Stoke BNP councillors sat on their hands.
Wrong candidate, apparently.
Don't know why, or the ins and outs of it to be honest, but my gut reaction is that it was because he was black/asian.
Simple as that.

The qualification required to attend 100 years old birthday parties is quite restrictive, according to the Nazis.

Racists who want to win and be elected Mayor.
My faith is somewhat dented with a potential BNP racist Nazi Mayor.

brooneyes said...

Nigel, no-one is trying to convince you of anything. If you don't want what I'm selling, buy from someone else.

Nigel said...

it's just that you seem to be promising to be able to deliver a hell of a lot BUT not actually telling us how you would do them. When queried you seem to have a don't ask don't tell policy.

Just an obsevation, I hope I have not upset you!

brooneyes said...

No Nigel, I am calm and not upset.
Obviously, the first step to enlightenment is in the way the vote goes as to which system we follow.
I certainly will not be speaking of what we will be looking to achieve, until we know which system we are planning for.
Minor rule changes like those mentioned earlier could be brought in by those with the power, only for some reason they don't want to........

nicky said...

I expect Mark Fisher will get nowhere but I do like the fact that he has the b...ravery to actually speak out publicly about this, which is far more than can be said for Rob Flello. I also liked what he said in that article, that the Sentinel was willing to report. Although I feel if I had commented some of those things it might have been censored.

I've had a little trouble with Sentinel censoring, and I'm honestly trying to abide by their rules. But unsure which bit they have the issue with. Saying a lot of good stuff about Trentham High, I would think they're ok with that as they've been very supportive of us. Spouting anti-academy stuff, well that's ok surely, academies are rubbish in my view. Mentioned certain words and certain people, like SERCO and Ged Rowney, but other people have used these terms ok. Plus they are alright with me posting comments inviting Ibbs to resign. I'm sort of concluding it may be I'm not allowed to say staff at Trentham High will lose their jobs. But what we were told before was they can apply for jobs at a new academy but no guarantees. And serco have always talked about just those in 'predecessor' schools having guarantees, at the Longton closure EMB that was said but at the same time Rowney said he was talking to the unions. In an email from Meredith today I was told that staff at Trentham would be treated fairly (whatever that means). So has there been a change in the staffing position? Of course the most urgent case is staffing at Longton, what's the latest on that? If there has been a positive development as Meredith suggests then why don't they come out and give parents the details, as it does affect the prospects for their children's education and I think it would be better they know.

Flello told the TAG at our last meeting that he had a meeting with Meredith and Knight, but when we asked what Meredith had to say he didn't seem to come up with anything. Are we really to believe Meredith bothered to go and meet Knight but only sat and listened? And Flello had originally said he would get Ibbs to the meeting too, like that was ever going to happen (it didn't). Then he implied there was something connected with Ibbs that he would tell us if he couldn't persuade Knight to save Trentham High as part of critisising the BSF plans from SOT (I await this but what relevance it may have I do not know). It appeared as if Ibbs had Flello gagged, but how does that work then, a tory councillor persuading a labour MP not to say something about some subject I know not what. Then he tried to persuade us not to lobby Knight as he is fully aware of our views (which peed me off that much that I immediately went off and tapped out another letter to Knight). Then he said something I can't remember how he phrased it about labour needing support or else we'll get BNP, which is one of the weakest wettest wimpish things I've ever heard but not the first time I've heard it from labour (which if I lived in an area with a BNP candidate would probably pee me off so much I may go out and vote for them). I'm certainly not voting for Flello at the next election because he's all talk and no action and still hasn't proven he's worth the vote yet. (Actually I didn't vote for him last time either as I was in a temporary libdem phase, I quite liked them under the friendly drunk but they aren't up to anything worthwhile under Clegg. Monster raving loonys here we come!)

Now if Flello thinks I'm misrepresenting what happened he can come on here and correct me. But this is what I witnessed at the meeting as did many others, although some may still be under the impression he will come up with something.

Anyway even mild mannered Dan Jordan (no offense Dan, I sometimes wish I could be calm but at other times prefer to lose my rag) was starting to lose patience. They keep buck passing between local and central government. We wanted an answer, was Knight going to intervene and do somthing about the shambolic BSF in SOT or not? We gave Flello an ultimatum, until 5pm yesterday. If there had been any news it would be all over the email, but it isn't, why am I not surprised? We decided after that we're going to give up being nice as it isn't getting us anywhere. So I've given up trying to be nice and had a good old rant, because I can on this site whilst it still exists.

If I have another conversation with Flello I'm well past it being one of those pretend it'll be ok and hope you may think something is happening ones. Just say plainly who has said and decided what and why. And go the Fisher route and say it publicly, and stop trying to look like Mr nice guy and start standing up for us forcefully.

Well Tony... you did ask "What do you want our MP's to do now?" And I'm afraid what you got is part of the "huge outcry" you mention.

nita said...

I agree, we have to give Mark Fisher credit, for having the bottle to say what he thinks, which makes a refreshing change. He may not be popular for it, but I bet he won't lose any sleep.

Nicky, what I find hard to believe is this. Picture the scene, the Stoke on Trent Proposals landing on Jim Knights desk. Let's bear in mind Academies are purely to replace unpopular and underperforming schools. He looks at Trentham and Blurton, both have had successful results over the years, so does he seriously go ahead and pass them, on this basis? He's a professional, no one in their right mind would give it the go ahead.

What he should be doing is coming back to Mr Meredith and saying, everything else I can go with, but you need to review this, this is wrong. Logical really, but we won't hold our breath.

Ian, would you please help me out on the Leader and Cabinet system. The Councillors will choose this person. Will this Leader, then have Committees, just as the Mayoral System does now? Will these Councillors be allowed to speak out as individuals?

How I see it is, at least with the Leader system, we will be able to get back to Councillors working together, and having a say, and actually being able to represent the people.

I can't believe, I have changed my mind to think this way, as I have always been swayed towards choosing the Mayoral System.

There is still a lot of confusion out there, people still do not know if they need to vote YES, to choose a Leader, or YES to rid the City of the Mayoral System.

Well done, to all those up Hanley yesterday, getting the message out.

The lady on the tannoy, was giving it a real go, getting the message out. "Have your say, lets get back to democracy", but I had to laugh at a chap, who was handed a leaflet, who said "how can I have a say, when under this system, you will choose, Id rather pick myself". I suppose he was right.

Gary Elsby said...

Nita, the fact is that over the last 20+ years we have been taken down a path that says all councillors are morons.

Even if a whole new set of 60 councillors come in, they are still morons.

Idiots will only have idiots to choose from, so (says Mike Wolfe's gang) choose from outside the chamber, and everything will be rosy.

In every City everywhere, they choose from inside the chamber, but in Stoke, morons are in the wings to slot in as lunatics are ejected.

The end result is 20 years of chaos, with a Mayoral system that is now outlawed and is in the unique situation of a referendum.

Why do THEY (they know who they are) do this to us.

Remember, it is me who asks you all to stand as councillors for our City.

You to will join in as morons and lunatics fending off insults by Mike Wolfe's claptrap gang of 'independents'(freemasons, Tories, racist right wingers,)

I ask this one question: Who has lost out the most in all of this?
(the public is not the obvious answer).

nita said...

Gary, to be honest, I personally believe that there are some excellent Councillors out there. Maybe, one of them will do an excellent job of taking the City forward, who knows. It a gamble either way.

It just seems that under the current system, although they have an opinion, they go against this, and vote the other way. I may be wrong.

brooneyes said...

Nita, it seems that your major concern is getting the councillors operating at a far higher efficiency rating than at present.
Having those members in recipt of special duties payments, instead of the elected mayor forcing them to vote with him or lose your place, why not make all such votes
free votes?
The only reason Meredith is still where he is, is because he has chosen people who will take the money! Don't believe me, count up what Joy Garner makes! Even Kent-Bagguley has taken a chair on
Merediths money-go-round.
The way round this is the BNP way.
First off, if the mayoral system was chosen, we would push for the mayors salary to be halved. If we won the position, this is exactly what would happen. And we believe that there should be a review of
money spent on managers and officers salaries too. Involvement in local politics should not be about financial restitution, that
should be secondary to the drive to change things for the better.
This is what Stoke-on-Trent politics is missing! Those that control the council at the minute are there solely for the financial rewards, and that will never give you the results you want to see!
We believe that one of the major
problems with the managerial set-up at the minute, is that far too many of the highest paid are from outside of the city. These people have no ties to here other than the money they get from you!
A leader and cabinet will see this city carry on down this same old path to oblivion, powered by greed and personal gain, over the greater good. Take a look at what there is on offer. Who would you prefer as leader, remembering that the bigger the group, the greater the chance of getting your choice in? And why allow the councillors to choose for you? Were you not spitting feathers over the fact that some of these councillors
deliberately abstained from voting on whether or not Trentham High would survive?
The democratic choice is mayor and cabinet because the electorate get to choose their representative,
leaving it to the shower that rule the roost at the present time will only heap more misery and embarrassment on us all.

nita said...

Brooneyes, you have got it in one.

How, can it be right, that a Councillor who receives a special allowance payment, always agrees with a decision made by the Mayor. This is no way to run the City is it. If one of these members disagrees, would they be removed from that Committee, and a new member found? Is that what you are saying? Maybe, it is not the Mayoral System that is wrong, it is just the way it is currently being operated.

Look, I keep making a definite decision, then you come on and make me change my mind again, ha ha.

Tony said...

You seem to be suggesting that if these councilors had voted then this would have saved Trentham High. This is not the case because under the current system of governance the final decision is made by the Elected Mayor and Council Manager and we all know what decision they would make!

Gary Elsby said...

Craig is basing council ineptitude on the amount of salary recieved.

His way, the BNP way, is to offer total and effective leadership at half the price.

Nice. (if only the bnp weren't a racist party- sigh!)

Craig, what is the going rate for a BNP Mayor (solid sound leadership etc etc..)

I would like to go in at £1.00 cheaper than your price.

Presumably, I would be solid, sound, articulate and better value than the BNP version.


brooneyes said...

Tony,Nita, this is exactly the point I'm trying to get across. It
isn't the mayoral system that's at fault, just the way the incumbents
abuse it. A few simple changes makes the mayoral system by far the best and most democratic.

Tony said...

Craig are you pushing for the Elected Mayor system because it's your parties best chance of success?

brooneyes said...

Sorry to have to put this in here, but I don't know how to contact you direct. I've just been looking through some housing papers from Renew and had a thought.
Instead of demolishing streets of terraced houses, knock down every third house. This turns the remaining homes into semis, and provides space for off road parking, something that is desperately needed in places like Henry Street, Tunstall.
It is simple and quick to do, which means displacements can be kept to a minimum.

brooneyes said...

No Tony, I don't think there is a lot of difference between the two systems as far as our success might go. Allowing the people to choose who they want to represent them is the more democratic of the two, that's why we push for it.

Nigel, said...

not a bad idea about the terraced housing but perhaps thr may a problem involving the structural support of the properties if every third house were demolished.

Nigel said...

Tony maybe right about an elected mayoral model being your best chance of success as you would only have to win once, where as a cabinet and leader model means you would perhaps need a majority of local councillors elected, needing up to 31-do you think that's even possible.

Anonymous said...

....but then the Mayor bypasses the other 60 councillors and does whatever he/she wants and can ignore the entire City who voted in those 60.

Can you imagine what that person could actually do if he/she ignored his/her entire political party?

eg. What damage could be done to our schools?

Margaret said...

That's why Mark Fisher is speaking out and is actually saying what the entire Labour Party membership is saying.

The position of Elected Mayor is undemocratic.It bypasses the entire political structure and the Governance Commission highlights this as the main problem with this City and also highlights the rise of extremist racist right wing parties such as the BNP.

The Governance Commission calls for political parties to stregthen and rise to the challenge to combat such extremities such as the BNP offer.

The position of Mayor gives them a disproportionate leg up.

Don't be fooled by their voting against the Mayor by supporting the question of leader while at the same time planning for a Mayor.

brooneyes said...

I used to work in construction
Nigel, and I know this can be done.
It fits in very well with the requirements of the town, especially the ability to park off road.
As far as the electoral system goes, Leader and cabinet will have every clique and group trying to get their own candidate in. It will splinter the political groups as favours, and God knows what else, get called in. A group like ours with 9 members and a few other votes could do well.

brooneyes said...

Margaret, I presume from your
childish hysteria toward the BNP, that you are of a far left political persuasion?
Please enlighten me as to what you consider far right extremist, racist beliefs?

Anonymous said...

A little bird told me that the racist BNP think they could get the likes of Coleman elected and then he would bring in Simon Darby as his political assistant! We would be in the poo then because the city would be run by the BNP......... What Then? Is is cause i is an ASIAN?

Margaret said...

A far right racist belief is where a State acknowledges the population's own racist belief and the ruling Political Party (Nationalist)sanctions the State killing of children.

A much unheard policy of Hitler was to allow children with mental disabilities to be layed on their backs with head over a sink and their throats slit. We call this eiuthenasia, today (murder).
A simplistic and idealistic answer to potential non workers who drain the State of resources.

No doubt, the local BNP will disassociate themselves from such vulgarity.

Yes, of course they will.

Anonymous said...

I once attended a public meeting and while I was waiting outside, an empty taxi pulled up and out came Michael Coleman and Alby Walker.

Nigel said...

I was trying to move on but I couldn't resist when you asked Margaret for an example of your racist beliefs,

QUOTE-Craig Pond (BNP Stoke branch secretary) said:

"the majority of the blacks only seem interested in stabbing, drug dealing, or codging
treatment on the NHS for bloody AIDS!"

You can't deny you said it as it is there for all to see on- Are the BNP a credible alternative Blog.

ian norris said...

Margaret/Anon : Name ONE decision where either ELECTED MAYOR has gone against the recommendations voted through in Full Council, or even agaiinst a recommendation made by a Scrutiny Commission?

brooneyes said...

Margaret, as suspected, you're mentally unbalanced.
Anonymous, so are you.
Nigel, I have not denied anything,
but there is a world of difference
between not wanting the overspill from Birmingham, and some deranged harpy accusing me of killing babies!!
I personally think that all posters who haven't even got the spine to use their names should be banned. All I've read from these cowards, is the kind of juvenile
crap I'd expect from delinquent teenagers.

Nigel said...

well, I don't know what Margaret's going on about quite frankly.

Like I stated, I want to move on and I don't want to keep banging on about the same subject but it IS racist to make sweeping statements such as....

"the MAJORITY of the blacks only seem interested in stabbing, drug dealing, or codging
treatment on the NHS for bloody AIDS!"

Tony said...

Margaret's comment is a bit off the wall! i think she made a good point in her 1st post but seems to have gone a bit loop de loop in her second!

nita said...

Ian Norris, correct me if I am wrong on this, but didn't Mr Meredith go against the Overview and Scrutiny Committee's recommendations on Trentham High School?

Serco were brought into the City to sort our education department, as we were 147th out of 150. In fairness, they are following instructions, and that is to address falling numbers, and are removing, what are perceived as unpopular or underperforming schools. Sadly, there was always going to be losers, in all of this.

All the closing schools have served their communities well, and we do not always see the hard work that goes on within the buildings. It is too easy to judge a school on its place in a league table. However, in reality parent's will opt for the better performing schools.

It would have been interesting,to see how this would have all been handled, if we had a Leader and Cabinet System in place.

Hugh said...

How about an elected mayor and elected cabinet?

No, I forgot, we're not allowed that. The Commons, in their (in)finite wisdom voted that one out. Far too democratic?

The cabinet members would replace the directors of the various departments, at probably less than half the current salaries, and would be answerable to the people every x no. of years.

But no, we're only allowed to have an e.m. or leader with an appointed cabinet.

Sad really.

Tony said...

You know Hugh, that would be a great system to be able to elect the cabinet member for schools and young people! Gawd the Trentham Action Group would love that!

Hugh said...

BTW, the above would have stopped the rather odd matter of Mr Ibbs somehow managing to have Adrian Knapper kicked out of the Children's & YP's Sevices portfolio, which he then occupied himself.

Was Mr Knapper beginning to listen too much?

Tony said...

well he gave in over the Heron Cross school did'nt he? Maybe a bit close for comfort for our Mark!

ian norris said...

Children and Young People's Overview and Scrutiny Committee made the decision that "that this Committee recommends to City Council that it supports a soft statutory federation between St Joseph's College and Trentham High School and that, as a consequence, Trentham High School be removed from any school closure list and placed on the upgrade and renovation programme."

I dont believe this has yet been debated or voted on by the EMB or Full Council. The EMB reommend that a reported be sent back, that has yet to Happen, when that report comes back then we will see if the EMB and Mayor listed to Councillors and the Public.

nicky said...

Ian, you are absolutely right. I for one haven't forgotten about this and neither has Michael Coleman who chaired that committee. EMB promised to report back and are indeed obliged to do so.

Margaret said...

Craig asked me to give him an example of extremist, racist beliefs.

I gave him one example of State killing of children by Nazis (his mates) during 1933 1945.

Heres a second one.

A ruler was used to measure the nose of a suspect (a jew) if it measured a bit too big, he was indeed a Jew, even if he never knew of a jew in his family (eventually sent to Auschwitz).

Heres a third.

All Jews are child molesters (TV broadcasts by propaganda Minister Josef Goebells.( poured petrol on his six children-burned themand then shot his wife.Shot himself next).

Craig asked me for examples of Nationalist Politics and I've given them to him and you.

I'm not stupid Craig.

Margaret said...

Just thought of another nutty BNP racist in this City.

Steve Batkin (as advertised in the sentinel)

"6 million Jews were not gassed and did not die in WW2"

"There were only 3000 in total and they died of accidents".

I'm not stupid, Craig.

brooneyes said...

You're not stupid?

I'll bet that's not what your
therapist says.

ian norris said...

Nicky: dont let them forget, they will try and hope it disappears(as nita believed it had failed). anyone involved in the petiton should get in touch with the Councill officers and democratic officers those that prepare the reports and get a date for when this will be reported back.

ian norris said...

As I thought all party supporters want to attempt to blame the mayor for all decisions in this city, Ignoring the POWER they have to make recommendations. Vote no get a new Mayor and get the Councillors to do THIER job and scrutinize OFFICERS and the EXECUTIVE.

Gary Elsby said...

Ian, you are completely wrong.

The position of Elected Mayor, in this instance, a Labour one, has allowed that position to totally bypass the Labour membership.

Remember, the Governance Commission considers this a fault.

The entire Labour Party cannot scrutinize the actions of the Mayor. Our rules allow us a say in policy (regardless of other parties rules, or your opinion).

So what chance, councillors of the same or other parties?

As their is no party structure for 'independants', it goes without saying, that an individuals view, is exactly that and istherefore muck weaker (no backup).

Your view of the right Mayor (being the right person) is fundamentally flawed.

The whole City can see that they have been ignored.We assume because we are all not as bright as a, THE, Elected Mayor.

Give me one reason why an Elected Mayor should ignore the population of the City, when you and your kind ONLY blame my sort (Labour) for all destruction?

ian norris said...

Gary: you say "Labour Party cannot scrutinize the actions of the Mayor" But the Labour Cllrs can call in the decision and then scrutinize them, if Cllrs have not called them in then they have failed in their job. Again name a decison from Cllrs (the ones that represent the residents of the City) the Mayor has ignored.

Inpendents as you say have no party therefore they can scrutinize Officers without having to follow the Party Line and make the decision they believe most suited to their Ward and Ctiy.

Gary elsby said...

But who scrutinizes an 'independant'? immediately prior to his standing for office?
This notion that an 'independant' is more wholly than me because I had to undergo two intense interviews by a Labour Party panel, is quite simply ridiculous.

Let me point out that passing the interview is based upon social competence and If I fundamentally disagree with my party on any issue, so what!

Independant ranks have within them, Tories and racists.

the Labour panel has no such thing and remains a very broad church of opinion.

ian norris said...

Gary elsby: and what has that to do with an Elected Mayor? what recommendations have your finely tuned and selected Clrs made that the eleceted Mayor gone against? I say NONE and your side stepping of the issue does nothing for your credability as passing the same intense selection. Maybe its best to have people that just want to improve the city use the power that those already elected fail to use.

D4S said...

Ian, everyone knows that the current crop of Labour Councillors have ignored the NEC rule book and refused to acknowledge the Labour Party right to have a say in forming policy.
This may mean nothing to you, but then again,you will always make your way into the press and say that Labour doesn't care or is closing schools and care homes in spite of public protest.
This is why Democracy for Stoke was formed.
A 'payroll vote' will always provide a sweetener as an alternative to a social conscience.
Ian, you are playing games with politics and you have no pedigree to support you amateurish forensic analysis of local politics, when all you have yourself is ten years of opposing a road (TNB) which is quite possibly the best road in the City.

ian norris said...

D4S: dont all residents have the right to a view an choice on politics in this City? I've asked some Questions that apparantly no on wants to answer, untill they are answered I will continue to ask questions?

brooneyes said...

You go for it Ian, don't let them evade answering your questions by criticising you.

ian norris said...

Brooneyes: I'm Surprised no one else has commentated on D4S trying hush Amatuer Politicians